Forgiveness in Amish country?

Question

The recent shootings in PA were tragic. The reactions of the Amish as reported by the media were to 'follow the teachings of Jesus' in forgiveness. We were urged to forgive and not hate the man responsible by those most closely affected. My question is, would Jesus really forgive this man? Remember Matthew 21:12; And Jesus entered the temple of God and drove out all who sold and bought in the temple, and he overturned the tables of the money-changers and the seats of those who sold pigeons. Clearly Jesus, whatever you believe about him was able to take offense and react with passion. If sellers in the temple could offend him, how do you think he'd react to this senseless killing of children? Remeber, shortly thereafter, Matthew 21:16; And Jesus said to them, "Yes; have you never read, 'Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast brought perfect praise'?" I'm asking as I try to deal with my own anger.

Answer 1

i think there is a key difference though. The money-changers' actions were ongoing, not a past event. While Jesus's actions there certainly don't seem to be peaceful and forgiving, perhaps his actions were necessary to end what the money-changers were doing. The actions of the gunman are in the past. Being angry and resentful does nothing to undo the tragedy. Certainly both Jesus and the Amish would have acted, had they been present, to incapacitate the gunman or otherwise try to save the girls, but once the event is in the past, it doesn't seem to be contradictory to forgive.

The major difference is whether an act is happening (in which case you should act to stop it, even perhaps act in an aggressive manner) or whether it has already occurred (in which case being angry does no good.) Its the difference between being passive and being forgiving, and those are not synonymous terms.

Answer 2

Jesus was defending the Temple, his father's house. He considered any disrespect shown the Temple was to show disrespect for God. In this he was a warrior. Anger thro, removes you from the Grace of God. The only way back is thru Forgiveness.

Answer 3

By forgiving- you are no longer responsible for the sin of anger. But there is a righteous anger- to take action. (proper action- not violent) But God did have punishment for the wicked even back in the Old Testament. (The flood,etc) So wickedness is not a new thing. I know it is so difficult to do, but let God punish the wicked. He has in the past and will continue to do so. Just try to say right with Him. Support those who are grieving.

Answer 4

I know this has nothing to do with the subject you are talking about but it might make you understand more how the omish really think.I moved to ohio to work in the muck, which is a farm. my landlords son was out riding his bike in front of his house on the road and a drunk driver hit and killed the little boy. The father did not press charges against the drunk driver because he said god is the only man that could judge another.The state took over the case and the man is in prison.The father and i stood over his son with nothing to be done.It was a sad day.Omish stand behind their beliefs and religion honestly.I am just now getting the news relating to your question. thanks

Answer 5

Some things are impossible with humans, but possible only for God. I share your feelings of anger, and I wonder why the dumb **** didn't just off himself first and leave the little ones alone.

Answer 6

Forgiveness is an individual response, not a government policy. Jesus was not trying to set government policy.

Jesus insists on forgiveness because if we respond to hate with hate, we will eventually be trapped forever in a universe of pure hatred.

Jesus never suggested to the Roman centurion that he should get out of the military, as if that were not an honorable way of earning a living, or as if fighting wars (in response to the aggression of others) or having a standing army was inherently wrong.

Finally, Jesus did not suggest that the other two men who were crucified along with him did not deserve to die! In fact, one of them said, "We deserve what we are getting, but this man (Jesus) has done nothing wrong!" It is strongly implied that one of the chief wrongs done in putting Jesus to death was in releasing Barabbas, who was the leader of a rebellion against Rome, and probably what we would today call a terrorist.

It seems clear that it is possible to forgive one's enemy on the personal level and yet also insist that he pay the legal price for his crimes, even up to and including the death penalty.

Forgiveness is of little or no use to the person forgiven if they do not intend to repent. A truly repentant person would be willing to pay whatever price he had to, even if it meant execution. Forgiveness is primarily for the benefit of the victims, to leave judgement in God's hands, and not to burden themselves with anger, hatred, bitterness.

I too am dealing with my own anger at the cruelty and the useless stupidity of the crime. Sometimes we are tempted to hate other people's enemies and we think it is all right because we do not know them personally, because they are not 'our' enemies. But the point is to prevent us from becoming hate-filled, anger-filled, bitter people. If we feel strongly enough about something in order to hate the perpetrators, then they have become our enemies as well.

Jesus even prayed for the benefit and welfare of those who executed Him, saying "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." In a sense, when those who commit such crimes kill themselves, they do not take from us the temptation to hate them; they take from us the opportunity to forgive them.

What would it take for those who executed Jesus to be saved...? It would have to begin with repentance, with the realization that they had done wrong and the confession that they had done wrong and the desire for forgiveness. Then it would be up to Jesus to provide forgiveness. And it would be up to us to provide forgiveness to the repentant ones who have wronged us. Even if we have to execute them afterward.

For the point of all this is that people might be saved; not have their lives saved on earth, but to have their souls saved from condemnation and hell in eternity. The truly repentant criminal would accept execution even after receiving forgiveness.

The truly forgiving victim would accept the criminal as a friend and brother-- not just for time alone, but for eternity...! The only alternative would be accepting eternal banishment oneself, if one is so hate-filled as to refuse to forgive.

It is never easy. Most of us are forunate not to have to forgive anything more than a minor fender-bender. In the face of such an enormous tragedy, with the accompanying temptation to hate back, I think that the Amish people have here demonstrated the truly Christ-like response.

My heart and my prayers go out to the families.

Answer 7

Firstly, let me preface here by saying I'm not a church-going person but I have studied theology I do believe in religion and spirituality.

Here's the section you are referring to:
"Jesus entered the temple area and drove out all those engaged in selling and buying there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves.
And he said to them, "It is written: 'My house shall be a house of prayer,' but you are making it a den of thieves."
The blind and the lame approached him in the temple area, and he cured them.
When the chief priests and the scribes saw the wondrous things he was doing, and the children crying out in the temple area, "Hosanna to the Son of David," they were indignant and said to him, "Do you hear what they are saying?" Jesus said to them, "Yes; and have you never read the text, 'Out of the mouths of infants and nurslings you have brought forth praise'?"
(Matthew 21: 12 - 16)
(http://www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew21.htm)


Matthew 21:12-16 referred to gambling and the use of animals in such activities. Gambling takes advantage of the often disadvantaged and preys on the weakness of the spirit. He was also furious that a place that should be used for worship and God's work was being used in an insulting manner as it decried and dismissed God and religion.

Yes, Jesus reacted passionately to what happened in the temple however, Jesus also walked with murdereds, prostitutes and those members of society considered to be undesirable elements. Jesus didn't turn anyone away from him. As long as they were prepared to change and accept him into their lives, Jesus accepted them. And even those who were struggling with their faith or not ready to accept Jesus, he still didn't turn them away either.

Certainly Jesus would be angry and furious that God's children were taken in such a way but Jesus would also be grateful for the children who remained alive. Jesus would also be grateful that the children were not abused although they were traumatised which at times can be just as bad. Jesus would be grateful that these children had such strong families who are going to surround them with love. Jesus would be comforted by the outpouring of empathy, grief and support from the non-amish community. Jesus would be proud by the way that church groups and businesses have put their differences aside for this occasion terrible that it may be to offer assistance, raise funds and Jesus would be extremely glad that a community known for its preference not to mix with the non-amish community was accepting the assistance that is being offered and even if briefly, allowing the wider community amongst its midst.

What happened in PA was awful. It was an innocent community, quiet, god-fearing people who were not materialistic, who kept to themselves and who didn't impose their lifesyle, religion or ideals on others. I was particularly distraught when I heard that two sisters from the same family died - no-one should die, but two sisters, that was awful.

I understand your anger. I was shocked when I watched on the news what had happened and I was saddened and am too praying for the community.

Faith based religions such as Christianity, demand that we forgive those who do us injustice. Whilst this is so difficult to do, please try to keep in mind that whilst this man did an awful thing, he also planned to do several other awful things to the students. But he didn't. He could have caused (as intended) further trauma and grief to the community and those in the school but he chose not to. I think that perhaps is worth remembering - I think that forgiveness allows people to move on - forgiveness is a part of the grieving process. Forgiveness won't happen straight away, but it is something that will take place with time.

Anger is a natural reaction to this kind of tragedy. However who are you angry at? God, Jesus, the man who did this? The community for not protecting itself better from this man? The law-makers of this country for not putting this man away and preventing him from doing what he did? The man's family for not realising who he really was sooner? The man's friends for not noticing the signs? Are you angry at the community for being so forgiving when you think they should not be? Are you also angry at the community because of how accepting and philosophical they are about their situation when other communities would be invoking their right to bear arms?

There really is no way to make sense of such a senseless act, however, there is every chance in the world that this man was suffering from mental illness and that he was struggling for years internally. I am not justifying what he did at all. I am not forcing you to forgive him.

Whilst it is understandable to react to such a situation, is it really your right to own such anger or personalise it to such a degree?
Try channelling your negative energy into activities that will benifit those around you and ultimately yourself. The world has its good and bad people. I think your'e one of the good people. Try to rebalance things through your actions, speech, the way you live your life.

Whilst I acknowledge your anger, your right to be upset and that it is because you care, I sincerely do hope you find a way to make peace with this situation.

Answer 8

I agree, it is there way to forgive, but that does not mean they validate the crime, for they know that it is for god to judge,being forgiven does not mean excused from god judgement,and he will judge him have no doubt of that

Answer 9

if you repent,you are foregeving of your sins