A hole on the side of the PC?

Question

Hey guys,
I have got a question. I have a computer, for which I just purchased a new SATA 160 gb hard drive. Now I have 2 hard drive sticking right next to each to each other, since I don't have any other space to put the new hard drive in. Anyways, it is a Western Digital WD1600JS model.
I bought the drive to save it as a backup, so that in case my other master hard drive goes out, I will have the backup of my things.
Anyways, let me get to my point. Ok, I switched on the PC went to Everest and it showed that the new SATA HD is about 68C. I was blown away by that reading, I felt the drive and it was a little warm. I downloaded another temperature reader and it stated the same. I took the drive back and I got another one of the same model. Switched it on and the same, it is getting to 68C although the book says that normal operations are at aroun 55C. I called in for their customer support and they said to do a drive analysis, I did it and it took almost 3 hours, and the analysis showed no problems.
I opened the side of the PC and put my room fan towards it and it cooled the drive back to 40C.
Now my old regular IDE drive is at 40C, while my new SATA drive is at 68C.
So I don't know if you guys could help me out on this, but what I was thinking to do is go and get a hole made on the side panel of the case, buy a new 120mm Fan and let it blow the air in. The Fan that is in the back, I will turn it around so that it would blow the hot air out.

Now my question is that I want to get a professional to make a good looking hole to put the fan on, but I don't know where. Do you have any suggestion about any shops that I could go to and ask them to make the hole.

Other than that, do you guys think that this is OK to have a SATA HD to be at 68C while the other one is at 40C?

Please consider my question about the shop to take it to first and then advice me something on this new HD.

THank you very much!!!

Answer 1

Hi there:
2 comments ,,,, 1/ thank you for providing really great information,
it is very rare to actually get a question that provides all the details.
2/ This is a really good question, and you are not alone, -- overheating is so incredibly common that it is surprising that there is not a lot more 'buzz' about it.

My most recent computer that I just threw together has 3 power supplies and 12 fans. There are 2 fans in the bottom front plastic panel, which I took a drill and using a pencil, marked out horizontal and vertical lines about 1/2 inch apart. I then took a 1/8 drill and centered the first holes. Then I stepped up sizes until I had a larger hole pattern - SUCH that , the interior area of each of the holes added equalled the entire size of the two fans. This aspect is important to reduce noise and increase the airflow.
On the interior of the front case was a hole pattern for ONE fan, which was a circular pattern of tiny holes - which does 2 things - it is as noisy as hell, and reduces the airflow to almost nothing.
Another answerer suggested a metal NIBBLER tool that cuts out square bits of metal, one tiny nibble at a time, and I have used these to remove the metal in a circle where the opening of the fan blades travel. A typical nibbler is at any techy outlet like Radio Shack such as:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062765&cp=&origkw=metal+nibbler+tool&kw=metal+nibbler+tool&parentPage=search
It is extremely important to NOT have any projections on the outter rim of the area where the blades travel since this will cause a "beat" percussion each time a blade passes, and make the fan very noisy. If the holes for the 4 screws of the muffin fan are not in the case I either mark them with a pointed scribe, and drill them or, now, I use the yellow-brown high temp hot melt glue, and just glue the fans in-- air tight in a few seconds.
I blow air into the case front bottom, and usually out the case top back. I use a foam strip over the front bottom fans between the case and the interior metal to force all air comming in to travel from the OUTSIDE of the case ( not circulating inside the case ).
On my last case, I put in a fan on the motherboard side blowing in as well, since there is a row of bays from the TOP of the front case to the bottom, all filled ( Not everyone has a SCSI Ultra wide card with 15 harddrives, a tape drive, a ZIP drive, a 5 1/4 inch drive, 3 CD/DVD drives, a 3 1/2" floppy drive, 5 Ultra ATA drives,
etc.etc. in a single XP computer ). I needed 3 power supplies.
On the first normal ATX power supply there was a fan on the exhaust, so I added one on the inlet, bottom. The case had a hole on the back for another exhaust fan, so I, again, cut out the entire metal area that the fan blades covered - using a pair of metal cutting shears, typically used by automotive sheet metal repair workers or furnace installers. Wiss or WIESS cutters seem to be okay - you need a good pair to work efficiently... These are at any hardware store. ( there are 3 types - straight, left and right cutters ) They are faster than nibblers, but can leave nasty jagged little slivers that you have to use a large slightly rounded file to remove if the area is exposed on the outside of the case, -- inside, I just leave the jagged edges if the case interior is not visible. Typically I do not care what the inside " LOOKS " like - I want 100% reliability - lots of fans, heatsinks, etc. and solid. I have done a couple of 'mods' that are absolutely unique, and these require cooling and mechanical work which is totally ridiculous - I won't mention it here. The outside of my typical case has areas of holes drilled "reasonably" well, - people do not notice, but close inspection shows hand tooling. I don;t care. They "work", well, and for years.
Then, I look at the assembled case with running components.
I use the " finger " test, and put my finger on each chip on every harddrive and card and motherboard component. If the chip, ( sound ship, LAN chips, voltage regulators, frequency controllers,
whatever ) is anything more than warm, such as MANY off-the-shelf cards / harddrives / and motherboards are shipped with, and I would burn my finger if held more than 30 seconds,
then I use heatsink pastes and aluminum heatsinks to cool each chip.
I try to mount the harddrives in the front, bottom in front of the case fan inlets. If a chip is on the motherboard with no heatsink
( typically a north or southbridge ) and running fiercely hot, I sink it. I use heatsinks from other computers, or other electronics from recylers or old power supplies etc., and chop them up to fit with a hacksaw, and file the cut edges smooth. If the motherboard chips ( or card chips ) are sunk, but fiercely hot, I either remove the sink ( unless it is epoxied in place ) ( sometimes they use a gooey double sided scotch tape ) and put in a bigger one, or add a fan or both- typically the same size as the sink - say a 386 or 486 CPU fan, again, recycled.
I put in the heatsinks with heatsink paste on the bottom, and dab hotmelt high temp glue on the corners.
Since I do this a lot, I have laser thermal probes to digitally check the components while they are running, to verify that the heatsinking and fans are working properly. You can usually skip this expense just by holding your finger on the heatsinks.
You can go one step further by getting a night vision scope, and looking at the components to see the heat signatures, which is faster and very accurate.
Sometimes, the PCI and AGP cards make their own power by using monolithic regulators such as 7805's 7808's etc. and these can run ridiculously hot. They are usually just bolted to the PCBs. I lift them up and put in a proper aluminum sink, and sometimes even have to add a tiny 386 type fan to keep them " finger warm ".
Don't forget the tiny IC chips like the frequency controllers - they are so small that you would not think of them as being a problem, but I have run across a few that are deadly hot.
I have had to mark out a cross pattern of holes on the sides of the case and drill exhaust or equalization holes on some cases. again, I use a small drill on the pencil pattern, and them use larger drills to make clean holes.

SO...

Back to your HOT harddrive....

Every component can affect all the other components in the case, and how you mount a harddrive and where, and next to what, makes a big difference. I have sent dozens of harddrives back to the manufacturers under warranty, and have complained to them, repeatedly, that THEY are their own worst enemy, clearly showing in the installation manuals, and on the web, how to install their harddrives in the FRONT, Middle, center, of the computer case, where there is NO ventilation, stacked ONE ON TOP THE OTHER, in the tiniest, most closed-in bays, in the entire computer. The fact that they ship drives, brand new, with chips on them that you can roast a turkey on, is strange - they DO fail, and I have hundreds of failed drives in boxes, all out of warranty. I have taken drives that people have given up on as unreliable, and located the hot chips, heatsunk them, put them in front of case front fans, and used them for years and years - in fact I still am using them. If you take off the heatsinks, the chips will overheat in about 5 minutes, and the drive will fail. PURE HEAT.

I have, in higher end, new, expensive, computers, mounted the harddrives in the 5 /14 inch CD bays at the top front. I get an after market blank front panel with 2 or 3 or 4 fans in it blowing into the case, and mount harddrive cooling kits on the new harddrives. These kits, as someone exlplained above, have either 1 or 2 fans on top with a cover that blows the air over the top, or, a huge aluminum heatsink that fits on the top, sometimes again, with 1 or 2 fans blowing air over the heatsink. Be certain to use heatsink paste, since many kits do not supply it. The irregular shape of the top of the harddrive makes an aluminum heatsink of dubious value in some instances. Lots of air is your best solution.

AND... In the old days, I would mount the harddrives upside down to have the hot Printed Circuit Board (PCB ) on top with the hot chips on top to expell the heat up and AWAY from the harrdive motors and bearings. On some HP, CompaQ, Dell etc, computers the harddrives were mounted sideways, or nose down etc, to cram them in. This is no longer possible, and the EXPLICIT instructions on HOW TO install a harddrive from the manufacturers websites of the past, are now WRONG. ( I have CLEAR instructions from all the manufacturers on how to put them nose down, or on their sides etc. )
You can only install drives flat, upside up. This means that putting heatsinks on the frying chips puts the drive UP HIGHER in the bays, and sometimes means drilling new screw mounting holes, and figuring how to mount them...
I am now scavanging entire 3 1/2 inch bays from old computers,
turning them upside down, and mounting them on the base of the bottom, front of the computers, right in front of the bottom, front, case fans. This situation is ideal, and leaves the original 3 1/4 inch bays for all the junk I want to install. ( ask ANYONE with an XP computer if they have a 5 1/4 black floppy drive !! ! ).
One solution for adding just ONE harddrive, is to make a template with a sheet of paper where the bottom screw holes are ( printed circuit side of drive ) and drill holes in the bottom of the case, front, just beside the front, bottom case, fans. The bottom of the case acts as a heatsink, and there is usually nothing in the way. You usually need a longer IDE/ ATA cable to reach from this
drive to the 3 1/4 inch bay above, where the typical C: drive would
be mounted. Being in front of the case front fans is, of course, great- and- the two harddrives are NOT sitting beside each other, thermally railing each other to heat overload...
You can get used 386 and 486 fans and heatsinks almost free. The heatsinks can be cut to size with any hacksaw. Heatsink paste is available anywhere, and DONT worry about getting the latest and greatest silver CPU paste for PCI and harddrive chips - the old white gunk is fine and cheap. Hotmelt glue is available in any building center.
NOTES. Make certain the aluminum heatsinks do not touch any capacitors or components under or around them !
Use only the dirty brown high temp hot melt glue!

Get creative.

If you have lots of $$ and just want the job done fast, mount the drives in 5 1/4 CD bays with expensive drive coolers and fan plates. (I have seen a huge aluminum harddrive sink kit that cost $150 for one drive... )

If you want to make your ENTIRE comptuer run cooler and longer, and Trouble free, and are "handy", start cutting holes and mounting fans. In ANY computer repair shop are piles of dead motherboards and ATX power supplies... really. Most can be traced back to either overheating ( often plugged power supply fans and heatsinks or CPU plugged fan/heatsinks etc. ) or, by people opening the cases WITH THE POWER 110 Volt cord PLUGGED IN and , mucking around with the motherboard LIVE ( ATX power supplies and motherboards NEVER turn off, unless the power cord is unplugged !!!! ) The power supplies are thrown in the garbage and are an excellect source of heatsinks and ... MUFFIN FANS !, and the motherboards are an exellent source of heatsinks and .... small muffin fans on the north and south bridges. You can go to all sorts of shops and get old 386 and 486 heatsinks and fans.
Be aware that if you add a hot harddrive, that extra heat must go somewhere, and just heatsinking or fanning it will add to the heat of all the components ( CPU and power supply ) that are in the exhaust path... You should add extra cooling and airflow to compensate...

As for a " professional " to make a hole, there is one other option. You can make any kind of hole, even rather crude, with either a nibbler and/or shears, and ge an aftermarket fan kit that has a custom plastic grill cover that hides the edges. I have not seen one lately, but they will likely be available if you search the web or local stores. This way, you do not need the expense of heavy, milling machines, and the even more expensive operator! Just mount the fan as per normal, and snap on the plastic grill cover.

(((( Finally, a few comments on the answers above...

Lynden states to just take your computer back - ( give up ? )
not my style...

bk78451 agrees with me that getting professional tradesmen to custom machine your case is prohibitively expensive..

Amy Lynn would like you to take it to the professionals - easy but costly, and you are at their mercy on how LONG they take...

Dennis K agrees with you ( and me ) that some harddrives just run VERY hot - he gives you links to one cooler, and one nibbler.
GOOD STUFF and I agree. As to WHERE to put in new holes, well,,,, you do not give any indication of what case you have, and since I have over 200, I do not assume anything. I have some of the strangest stuff you could imagine, and trying to work with some cases defies all pre-concieved notions and logic. Everything is crammed into strange areas with no room to change anything... You just have to be REALLY inventive. I have had to mount a harddrive in mid air, in the middle of the case, where there were no metal sides or supports at all. It worked well though - there are no " RULES" and if you saw some of the cases I have, you would agree... !

Intereseddude has a really good point in being clever, and looking for a unique place to add cooling ports, : though I have not had much luck in going to machine shops!

ggfire has some good points, but I personally VERY dissagree with the suggestion you use a VACCUUM cleaner... Ouch..
Double ouch... please put in the following in the SEARCH bar to read my answer on how to clean a computer saftely ...

_________________________________________________

How do you safely clean dust from inside the computer case?
___________________________________________________

and you will understand why a vaccuum cleaner is DEADLY near a computer...

The idea of taking a computer case or side panel to a machine shop is " INTERESTING" and I have done similar things, getting a skilled tradesman to " LOOK " at the job estimate for $60, and fill out the 6 copy " JOB DESCRIPTION" paperwork for a Union prescribed " WORK ORDER"... Unless you know someone in a machine shop personally as a friend, you would probably be better off spending your money on another solution...

Just putting in a fan the same size with a higher CFM ( cubic Foot per Minute ) is an " OK" idea, and I have replaced the typical cheapo fans with a German made stainless steel ball bearing assembly with a Serial Number stamped on the bearing (( like the ones on your car engine )), and the air flow did increase, along with the AMPERAGE draw on the 12 volt rail. However, you have to consider where the hot air you are blowing is going, and if the added airflow is actually allowed to happen -- are the exhaust holes bigger? are the exhaust fans faster? etc. A bigger, more powerful fan can never hurt, but unless you remove the metal baffles that typically cover the fan openings, you WILL vastly increase the noise as well. The added 12 Volt current draw will
increase the heat of the ATX power supply as well, so that has to be factored in... It may work well if you drill extra exhaust vents in some part of the case to allow the hot air to escape without the bottleneck of the existing path thru the power supply. Creativity and ingenuity would be needed...

Purchasing an entire new case and removing and re-mouning everything is possible, but then you may have to go out and buy more fans and parts, and have to buy cooling for the harddrives in any event , and just take longer - I personally would not look forward to having to do it - only you can decide the pros and cons involved. )))

hope this helps !

robin

Answer 2

OK...my thoughts:

The 68 degrees (C) is higher than the manufacturer's operating spec of 0 - 55 degrees (C). Since you were able to cool the HD down by opening the case, then this should indicate to you that the HD is likley working within normal parameters, but the cooling system inside your computer is not adequate. This can be expected, since desktop manufacturers will usually only provide adequate cooling for their installed components. The case cooling system(s) that you have are probably not sufficient to cool the added heat from a new drive (which does get hot!)

Now, what to do...Option #1: you can do nothing -- don't worry about it and run the computer as usual -- this option may decrease the life of components inside the case, but my experience has been that it will probably not -- you will likely upgrade computers before that happens. Option #2 is you can upgrade your desktop case fan(s) --- if there is only one case fan then replace it with a higher CFM (cubic feet per minute) model or perhaps a second case fan (if traditional case mounts exist for this). I would definitely not consider option #3: cut a hole in the case -- besides the expense, you will be adding much more noise to your computing experience and don't forget the dust you may be adding to the interior which will cause additional heating in the end.

Upgrade your case fan and keep the interior of the case clean (every few months or so you can use compressed air or a vacuum to cleanup the dust bunnies, etc.)

Hope that helps.

Answer 3

Before you cut anything, is there not another place to mount a fan on the front of the case? You might also look at just replacing your case fan with a better fan that moves more volume. You might also consider swapping the drives around physically, as most cases seem to offer better ventalation to one over the other. If the case is metal, any metal shop should be able to punch the holes you require.

Answer 4

It seems my WD's always ran hot too. One I can't even touch.
There are coolers for HDs. It has a big aluminum base and two fans on it. It plugs into the old big 4 prong power plugs and fits in a 5.25" bay. Look Here:
http://www.casecooler.com/blaculhardri.html
If you need to cut a hole in your case, you should cut it on the removeable side panel. Otherwise you need to take all your components out so they don't get metal cuttings in them, that will really screw things up. The cases are made of thin material so they are easy to cut. There is a device called a nibbler which takes little bites out of metal. Cyberguys.com has it here:
http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/searchdetail.asp?productID=3434
All you have to do is drill a starting hole, easy

Answer 5

For the money you spend on getting some professional to put a nice looking hole in your case, probably enough to get a bigger case that has good cooling (like enough fans to circulate air to get heat out).

Answer 6

What makes you so sure your drive is actually 68C ? That would be too hot to touch. That is even hot for a cpu.

Answer 7

I would do some research on where at on the box would be the best place for the hole, then take it into any shop and tell them specifically where to drill it.

Answer 8

take it back to the shop and let them help you