If England votes Tory again, what can the rest of us do about it.?

Question

After the various betrayals of the Scots and the Welsh by the last couple of wholely England supported Tory government, only Englad can elect a Tory national government. No-one else wants that and I don't think we should ever put up with it, again. What can be done to prevent it?

Hmm. Not getting a lot of help, here.

Thanks JD, for laziliy and apathetically not reading the question properly. Doh!!

And gvih2g2, if it were remotely possible for Scots and Welsh electorates combined to out vote the English, you might have a point but they can't. That's the problem.

The few Labour policies which required parliamentary support from all of Labour's UK representatives rather than just the English ones are nothing compared to nigh on two decades of nothing England biased rubberstamping that went on under the Tories.

BTW, you know that Scottish Parliament we have now? We voted for that in 1979 already but it didn't make any difference.

I don't come to this Politics section very often. Now I'm starting to remember why.

modeller_db: You're obviously pro-tory and straying rurally off the point but OK. The gold reserves. You dare bring that up? What happened to British telecom and gas and electricity and rail and god knows how many other priceless assets that I used to own? British fuel has been the most highly taxed in Europe for a lot longer than the present Labour administration and the health services situation also predates their inaugural election. You certainly don't need to go on. You need to go back and stay there.

gvih2g2: The devolution vote was not held under a Labour administration. I don't know where the hell you got that idea. It's true Labour campaigned against it at the time but it was the first Scottish order of business for the new Tory regime to hold the referendum. The rules were shamelessly rigged by the Tories. You couldn't get free money elected under those rules.

When did I say I thought we were STILL worse off? With the Scottish Parliament, Scottish politics is more accountable to the Scottish people than Englands is to the Enlgish, I agree. I don't see how that's Scotland's problem. Don't complain to us about that. Complain to your English MP for failing to secure similar domestic control. Westminster is still more powerful than Holyrood in the end, though, and the present level of Scottish autonomy would be threatened and undermined, I believe, with Tories running the Palace.

As humiliating as it is, I'd be a bigger fool not to admit the mistake. I don't know where the hell I got the idea the 1979 referendum was held under the new 1979 Tory government. I seem to have red misted the memory of theTories contemptuious removal of the issue from any agenda on 26 July with the repeal the Act despite the referendum result and the expressed will of the Scottish electorate. There was betrayal and there's no one else to blame at that stage.

Answer 1

All I can say is god help us all if the Tory party gets back in and is the all saying government for this country, I could never allow myself to vote for them, they are hypocrites and did enough damage the last time they were elected in to run our country, maybe its time for a compulsory vote and for the other parties to do a lot more canvassing to get the votes they need to keep the Tories out for ever.

Answer 2

I might well ask: "If the Scots and Welsh give Labour a majority, even though we English vote Tory, what can we do about it?"

We are currently having policies foisted on England that don't even command the support of a majority of English MPs - let alone the English people - and WE feel betrayed by the way the Labour Party, pandering to the Celts, have unpicked the democratic equality of the UK. The loss of autonomy that comes from being part of a union cuts both ways, you know.

BTW, how exactly did the Tories "betray" the Scots and Welsh?

>> Additional

"gvih2g2, if it were remotely possible for Scots and Welsh electorates combined to out vote the English, you might have a point but they can't."

But the Scots and Welsh can combine with a MINORITY of English MPs (when some English Labour MPs rebel) to impose upon the English things that our MPs don't want and we didn't vote for. This is particularly unfair when (eg with top-up fees) the resulting legislation doesn't even APPLY in Scotland or Wales.

As for the devolution vote in 1979 - I think you'll find that was "lost" under the rules imposed by the LABOUR government which was then in power (even though, I agree, a majority [51.6%] of those voting supported the measure).

So I ask again, how did the Tories betray you? What "English-biased" policies did they introduce (apart from 1 more year of Poll Tax - which then came south, remember)? Were they as blatant as Gordon Brown's £5 billion stamp duty hike, the bulk of which is being paid by London and the South East?

Anyway, my answer to your original question would be the Scots and Welsh are now guaranteed - thanks to devolution - to have their home affairs run by a party or parties their own people chose. Yet that guarantee does NOT apply to England. You must have a heck of a persecution complex to think that you're still the ones who are worse off!

>> Further additional

"gvih2g2: The devolution vote was not held under a Labour administration. I don't know where the hell you got that idea"

"The referendum was held on March 1, 1979 ... The Scotland Act 1978 was repealed, in March 1979 by 301-206." - Wikipedia

"The United Kingdom general election of 1979 was held on May 3, 1979 ... The Conservatives and their leader Margaret Thatcher won and replaced the Labour government." - Wikipedia

>>>
"I don't see how that's Scotland's problem. Don't complain to us about that."

Yet Scots seem to feel free to complain to England about things that aren't England's problem.

>>>
Okay, I'm glad we agree on the facts. I think it's important not to let your hatred of the Tories (hey, I don't like them much either) to influence your thinking here. Remember that it was the Labour government which set up the rules for deciding who had won the 1979 referendum, and maybe - though they didn't dare say so - a No vote suited them: they faced the highest number of SNP MPs ever (11), and had won only 36% of the vote in Scotland (and 41 out of 71 seats) at the previous election (the Tories then had 16 seats in Scotland). When they held the second referendum in 1997 they had just won 56 out of 72 seats and 45% of the vote, so perhaps felt more sure they could win control of the Scottish Parliament, so really WANTED a Yes vote.

Anyway, the thing we should ALL work for is to make the government of Britain more representative of the whole electorate. We need a system that won't give a clear majority to ANY party that gets under 40% of the vote. We need a system whereby EVERY consitituent nation has the same degree of autonomy. And we need a system for UK-wide government that balances equal representation for every individual with a guarantee that the will of the largest country can't steamroller everyone else - though that won't be easy.

Answer 3

the reason that crap parties get into power is cause not enough of us are voting. at the next election every person eligable to vote should go out and do a protest vote ( vote for a party thats unlikly to get into power) that way the goverment will see how many voters there are that are not happy with there policies and may give them a wake up call to start listening to the people of britain.

Answer 4

Cheer! Because it will mean we have rid ourselves of a lying, thieving parliament who has done nothing except get the conuntry to almost bankruptcy. Where have our gold reserves gone? Ask Labour. Who has one of the highest taxed fuels in Europe? Ask Labour. Who has one of the poorest staffed health services? Ask Labour. Do I really need to go on?

Answer 5

If, according to your statement, no-one wants a Tory government again, then they won't get into power will they? As long as enough people get off their lazy, apathetic backsides and bother to vote. Cannot complain if they don't vote, and the 'wrong' party gets into power. Doh!!

Answer 6

Not a particularly serious answer, but we could just not speak to them. Okay, scratch that, being Scottish I already don't speak to them.

I don't think there is anything we can do to prevent it as it is impossible for Wales and Scotland (even working together) to prevent it. After colonising our nation they did their best to stop us taking it back unless they want to give it back. All we can do now is bend over and lube up.

Answer 7

hi i'll vote labour because of the fact they surely agree that investment in public service is needed for society. i'm from a destructive section if south London and over the final ten years I easily have considered genuine exchange it is all because of the fact of labour incestmnt. The terrible council assets became replaced via decent residences. i've got faith that if human beings stay in stable circumstances they sense extra self nicely worth and could behave extra desirable. The tax credit scheme has allowed many destructive single mums to get lower back to artwork, despite if their earning have been low. we've had checklist investment in practise, well-being, police and the protection rigidity. Society has definately greater under labour.. it is undeniable. we've much less poverty, decrease crime and extra desirable standards of residing. I hassle that the Tories will opposite all this super artwork... It seeks like they gained't shrink spending too lots so possibly i'm incorrect. yet a conservative via definition needs a tiny state and that i've got faith a small state is yet differently of exclaiming 'your on your individual regardless if your situation'

Answer 8

The standard response is to jump out the nearest window.

Answer 9

I dont know why we bother anymore, each of the parties are basically the same, a load of rubbish

Answer 10

why prevent a Tory government rejoice that we may have the return of sanity