I don't understand about entropy and the second law about energy. Second law states: Every energy transformati

Question

on leads to an increase in the amount of disorganization or disorder (disorder is the same thing as entropy)

My Biology book states that because when hydrogen ions (H+) are distributed randomly on either side of the membrane, no additional energy is needed to keep them that way, and the entropy, or disorder, of their arrangement has increased. The result is a more stable arrangement of H+ ions.

I need help understanding this concept. : (

Thank you all so much in lending your expertise in Biology and Chemistry!!! I now understand the concept due to everyone's input.

Answer 1

If you haven't done so already, you should read the Wikipedia article on Entropy. It has been substantially improved since the last time I looked at it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy

Keep in mind also that the incredibly overused example of entropy being a measure of disorder is at best misleading and in most cases just plain wrong. From a statistical point of view, the entropy of a macroscopic state is the logarithm of the number of microstates of the system consistent with the observed macrostate of the system. This is called a measure of disorder on the grounds that there are intuitively many more ways for a system to be disordered than there are for it to be ordered, but unfortunately this intuition fails when applied to actual thermodynamic situations. For instance, there is nothing inherently more ordered about having all the H+ ions on one side of a membrane than having exactly equal numbers of them on either side, but there are MANY more ways for the latter to obtain than the former and as such the latter is a higher-entropy configuration. Similarly, our intuitive notion is that to have different immiscible liquids of different densities separated into neat layers is a more ordered state than to have them haphazardly mixed together, but the "neat layers" state actually has HIGHER entropy (some pretty improbable energy transfers have to take place to keep the denser liquids at equal altitudes in equal quantities to the lighter liquids). As such, you may be better off if you forget about the whole "entropy=disorder" lie and think of entropy as a measure of thermal isotropy - i.e. how "spread out" is the energy in the system? If the energy in the system is all bunched up in one place, you have a low entropy scenario, whereas if the energy is spread out all over the universe, you have a high-entropy scenario. This produces more accurate results than the usual method of thinking about entropy as disorder.

Victor: The reason I gave you a thumbs down has nothing to do with my appreciation of chemistry, but the fact that the octet rule and conservation of energy have nothing to do with the question. If you can't be bothered to answer the question that was actually asked, please don't post anything at all.

Answer 2

I don't think your book is right. If the H+ were distributed EVENLY on either side of the membrane, then no addl energy would be needed to keep them that way. But suppose by chance (randomly) that more H+ atoms were on one side of the membrane than on the other, then energy WOULD be needed to keep the ones from the high concentration from crossing the membrane into the low concentration.

Answer 3

Whoever gave this answer a thumb down does not appreciate or understand chemistry.

******Octet Rule******
EIGHT is the magic number!

Everything chemically speaking seeks to obtain EIGHT valence electrons in its outer shell. That makes it stable.

Entropy involves the constant randomness of the universe. Things are constantly being mixed and chemically combined.

Energy is never created.

Energy is transferred from one state to another.

You can't make energy. You can only harness it or release it from a stored source.

Answer 4

Increasing disorder increases stability in the long run If no eneregy is required to manitain a configuration, it is likely to stay that way.