If light is the fastest thing in the universe, then if the sun burnt out we'd all be dead before we knew it...

Question

Albert Einstein theorized that light is the fastest thing in the universe. But if the sun were to go out right now then we'd wait a few minutes for the light from the sun to stop shining on the earth and we'd then spin out of orbit and everyone dead. BUT that would mean that INFORMATION travels faster than light, disproving Einstein's theory. HOWEVER, the theory would still hold true if loss of magnetic force was instantaneous, meaning we'd spin out of orbit immediately. But wouldn't that mean that magnetism travels faster than light?

I would appreciate your input and any articles/people who have argued against Einstein's theory.

Dr. M: I'm not saying that this would happen, but IF the sun were to instantly burn out, and IF the information that the sun had burnt out reached the planet earth before the light had gone out, THEN Einstein's theory is incorrect.

even more details....: I am sorry for being unclear. my argument is not that if the sun burnt out we'd all die without knowing, it is simply exposing the idea that light is not the fastest thing in the universe/galaxy/existance

Stephen B: EXACTLY. if we experienced loss of orbit because of the extinguished sun (btw it DOES NOT MATTER if we know it is the sun or not at the moment the events are happening (just think about it)) then we'd know the sun had burnt out before the light reached us which disproves einstein's theory.

FOR THE FINAL TIME ! (before i just read your answers and eat them): I AM NOT THEORIZING ABOUT THE EXTINGUISHMENT OF THE SUN AT ALL. ALL I AM TRYING TO DO IS EXPOSE THE IDEA THAT IF THE SUN WERE TO SOMEHOW INCREDIBLY GO OUT WITH THE BLINK OF AN EYE, THE EVENTS THAT FOLLOWED MAY OR MAY NOT DISPROVE EINSTEINS THEORY.

Answer 1

According to the principles of Newtonian mechanics, you are entirely correct. If the sun were to somehow magically disappear this instant, then Newtonian mechanics predicts that the earth would go flying off and we would be quite screwed.

However, relativity shows that this is not the case. But you'll probably have to wait for a more advanced course in physics to truly understand the details of his theory.

Also, no one claims that relativity is the final theory of everything or anything like that. We know right now that relativity and quantum mechanics are inconsistent, and that is why physicists are working on string theory -- they want to create a mathematically consistent theory.

There is a fantastic book explaining the rudiments of relativity and string theory in nontechnicalspeak. It's called The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene, and it gives good insight into modern physics.

Answer 2

First of all it is not the magnetic force that holds the earth in orbit, but rather the gravitational force. And they are very different forces.

All forces travel at or below the speed of light. So if something where to happen to the sun, the earth would not feel any effects for an amount of time equal to the time it takes light to travel from the sun to the earth. This means that if the sun where to suddenly disappear the earth would still orbit as if the sun where there for several minutes. This also means that if the sun where to explode it would take the same amount of time for shock wave to reach us. This is the picture that modern physics shows us.

If something where to happen to the sun and it affected the earth instantly then this would be a sign that modern physics is wrong. However there has been nothing observed as of yet to indicate that anything information travels faster than c.

Answer 3

If the Sun were to disappear instantaneously, it would take approx 8 minutes [or the light distance of the Earth from the Sun] for the gravitational force ripples to let the spacetime around the Sun un-warp. The Earth right now is already going along in a perfectly straight line through curved spacetime. You remember: All objects in motion will remain in that state of motion unless acted upon by some external force. The external force for the Earth to makes its path a geodesic is gravity. Gravity is the curavture of spacetime caused by massive bodies in that spacetime. The electromagnetic force --which is geometrically, or should it be exponentially, stronger than the wimpy force of gravity-- has nothing to do with the Earth's orbit, nor its spin, nor the Sun's orbit around the center of our galaxy nor the Sun's spin on its axis. We would begin to go along in a straight line to some external observer's frame of reference NOT immediately when the Sun decided to go play hide and seek, but 8 minutes or so later. Gravity waves propigate through the universe no faster than light waves.
The un-warping of the spacetime around the spot where the Sun was would ripple to us just after the last remaining light photons from the now gone Sun got to the Earth. We see that spot in the sky go dark and THEN start to ride the unwarping spacetime.

Answer 4

I'm not convinced.

What makes you think we would have any "information" of the sun burning out before actually witnessing it? If there were no warning signs to help us predict this sudden event, then we would certainly experience it before we realized what happened.

well, even with the clarification, your argument is still unclear. You are presuming that if the sun went out that all life on earth would die instantly (which is obviously not the case). "death" is not comparable to the speed of light.

And besides, if "information" were to be defined on a scientific and physical basis, it would have to do with chemical and electrical signals within the human nervous system, or electrical signals within a computer. Neither of which surpass the speed of light.

Alright, I think I see what you're trying to get at now. However, I'm not sure that gravitational attraction is "faster" than the speed of light. Gravity is such a mystery....
...Perhaps this could be compared to a Black Hole, where the gravitational force is so strong that light can not excape its pull.

Answer 5

I am not sure agout your theory. Light may be the fastest thing in the universe. But the sun is x number of light years away which means the final rays would be reaching us a considerable time after the sun started faltering. Which leads to the next problem - the sun doesn't just blow out like a candle, we should have ample warning (if the human race is still around) that the sun is dying.

Answer 6

I don't believe the information that the sun went out would get here until you actually saw it get dark. Electromagnetic waves, I believe, are transmitted through photons which travel at the speed of light. Any noticeable deviation of the orbit around the sun would not be noticed for several days and possibly longer depending where we are on the loop. I also believe there is enough residual heat to stay alive for more than enough time to kiss your butt goodbye.

Answer 7

Actually, we'll be dead long before the sun burns out. In about 1 billion years, after the sun expended all of its hydrogen fuel and starts burning helium, it will start expanding into a supergiant. Earth's atmosphere will gradually boil off and another 1 billion years or so later, the Earth will be destroyed when the Sun envelops it. At that time, Mars will be the closest planet to the Sun.

Answer 8

We are not held in orbit by magnetic force. Suns death is not instantanius. It will first starve for fuel and the death is slow and painful. read more about death of stars

Answer 9

About eight minutes to make it a reality