How does chaos-theory contradict Darwin's theory of evolution?

Question

I recently read that chaos-theory was a "problem" for Darwinists but I really could not figure out why. The quote:

"New variables occur over time and do not require an outside force in order to "be". This is not a problem for physicists but is more of a problem for biologists, because it appears to contradict Darwinian ideas." (An Introduction to Chaos, Ziauddin Sardan, 1998)

It seems to me that Chaos- and evolution-theory both are very much capable of existing without contradicting eachother.

The author has also written several religious books and might use this book to promote his anti-evolution views...?

Just to make it clear: The author of "Introduction to Chaos" (the book itself is a quick and pretty objective introduction to Chaos theory) is NOT a religious fundamentalist but rather a scientist, who simply argues against evolution theory (Which is not the general attitude among scientists, but that does not make it "untrue").

I noted that he has written several books on religion because some religions may use Chaos theory to prove the existence of a superior force (a God) that is the "system" behind the chaotic world we humans inhabit. This can be argued for in a scientific way but the author stated that Darwinism and Chaos were incompatible as a matter-of-fact. And that confused me a bit.

Thank you for all the answers.

Answer 1

I agree that there is no conflict between chaos theory and Darwinian evolution. In fact, mathematical chaos is the basis for the sort of complexity needed for self-organizing systems. Biology (including evolution) is driven by self-organizing systems. Basically, living systems ARE self-organizing systems, and since self-organizing systems are based on the complexity of chaotic systems, it follows that we could not have life without chaos, and hence the whole science of biology depends on chaos.

And by the way, I pasted a link to a Scientific American article that lists a bunch of scientific responses to creationists babbling. I don't recall any discussion of chaos theory, but you might find it interesting anyway.

Answer 2

Evolution has a theory that changes occur that make the species better over time. That a variable will be modified because of outside influences. I believe that this is true over the longterm, however chaos theory says that changes happens but not for any purpose... just change.

I agree with you that the two theories are compatible. If the author you quote wants to say one theory trumps another and that Darwinism is wrong, well, that's their right.

I believe that Darwinism would say that changes occur to 'better' a species. If the change is chaotic, then a change may or may not be better. I would say that the author is making an assumption that Darwinism assumes that a better species is only one path. Whereas, in reality, even chaotic changes could better a species. It isn't known if the species is better until it is 'tested' in reality.

Answer 3

For a clearer exploration of this, try reading:

The Science of Disc World 3 - Darwins Watch.

Your author seems to follow the idea that, while accepting that evolution exist, its progress is guided by God. Design and evolution are therefore one in the same.

However, taking the idea that God does not have such a tight hand on the reigns, then there is no confilict between the two theories.

Answer 4

I have all but given up trying to understand anti-evolutionists, who will reject anything that is not consistant with their religious dogma.

However, the theory of evolution (labelled as 'Darwinism' by creationists...even though it has been refined since Darwins 'Origin of the species') has been seen in action.
Random mutations which do not provide a benefit to the species (or are harmful) will tend to die off as soon as they crop up.
Mutations which are beneficial - and will cause a net increase to the species - may be repeated and cause the species to evolve

I dont see a problem with chaos theory and evolution

Answer 5

Agreed, actually to my mind chaos theory actually serves to validate the theory of evolution for it is variables of happenstance in genetic assignment in the zygote that causes the genetic changes which power evolution. One medical fact that has been widely researched demonstrates that almost 50% of human eggs that are fertilized are spontaneously aborted in the first few days of pregnancy because of genetic veriables which cannot sustain life. When you think of all the possible combinations of genes spontanously effected at fertilization chaos theory is probably the true reason why 50% of the combinations actually survive to create a living being.
The anti-abortionists are not above re-working scientific thought to validate their screwed up ideas. It is however easy to spot when this is being done because the person attempting the re-working usually has little or no grasp of the actual scientific fact they are attempting to alter.

Answer 6

i really dont think they contradict...they can quite easily work in tandom. darwinism expects a continual evolution of a species and the environment over a long period of time. chaos-theory believes that SOME events occur on an relatively instantaneous time-scale. they are one off catastrophic events that change the environment in a single motion. it is often these events that are found to be the cause of evolution and that call for darwinism to occur. it is necessary for organisms to evolve by darwins theories in order to adapt to chaotic events

Answer 7

Chaos and evolutionary theory are completely compatible. The only problem that choas poses for evolution is that it argues one would not be able to predict the form a new species would take because there are too many variables. I suspect it's a religious attempt to undermine evolution.

Answer 8

lol there are distinctive haters on right here today lol. in any case I understand what you propose in spite of if. Evolution explains what happens after existence shaped right here in the worldwide no longer earlier. And the explanation why we've very close DNA with many animals is by using the fact we are made up of the comparable element. each thing in this universe is equivalent to a minimum of one yet another. there's a oneness. for occasion do you know that our bodies are composed of the comparable chemical compounds as stars in our universe!!? Like maximum stars are very almost made out of no longer something yet hydrogen. Sounds time-honored our physique is made up of 70 %(i think of) of water that's hydrogen and oxygen mixed. Thats loopy good? If this doesn’t tutor those that each thing comes from one then I don’t understand what's going to. we are no longer distinctive then pigs or apes or any residing element. we are made up of the comparable issues. We in simple terms have the means to think of yet why can we could desire to think of? why are we so distinctive in that branch on a similar time as all the different animals are comparable interior the strategies or close even although some are lots smarter then others.yet i've got self belief we dont have a decrease they have some limits.. Evolution could desire to possibly to this point as our information can clarify it yet does evolution propose God didn’t create us? No actually no longer that's in simple terms the only way we are able to describe Gods artwork. i will describe how the solar rises and contraptions yet in simple terms because of the fact I understand and clarify it doesn’t propose God didn’t do it. you know and benoitcandain rats and mice are simaliar they are the two rodents lol and we human beings share some close DNA with them lol dont have self belief me seem it up>

Answer 9

I think its Sardar, not Sardan, by the way.

The only possible argument I can think of is that if mutations are random (chaos theory) then how would that possibly lead to improvements in an organisms survivability (Darwin)?

But that argument falls down pretty easily. There *are* an equal number of good and bad mutations produced, but only the good ones are passed onto future generations.

(A simplified argument... but Sardar apparently has a simple mind...)

Answer 10

Ah, he is a creationist, there lies the problem.

Evolution and chaos fit perfectly. Evolution on a DNA & molecular level tells us that tiny adaptations in micro environments will lead to variation and differing selection processes. Chaos is an input of random effects into the environment means that the molecules most able to adapt will be the ones that survive.

Chaos is intrinsic to Evolution; however being such an impossible subject to really study, by its' very nature it is impossible to predict what part it will play, it is easy for people who refute evolution to cite it...no proof to them, is proof that evolution does not exist!