What are your thoughts?

Question

Suppose a woman is pregnant and decides it is not a good time for her to have a baby. She does not go to a doctor and get an abortion; she prays to lose the baby. She actually does lose the baby within a week of this prayer.

I will also mention that she is a believer- that is to say, in her mind the prayer caused her to lose the baby.

And, she also believes (used to tell her daughter this as an explanation of why daughters shorts had to come below her knees) that if you think a thing, it is the same sin as if you actually did it. For example, if a man looked at said daughter and thought of premarital sex with her, he had sinned the same as if he'd attacked and raped her. (And if the girl caused these thoughts by wearing 'innapropriate' clothing, then she had caused the man to sin and therefore was equally guilty of the sin, but that's not relative to this question.) So- is the woman as guilty of murder as if she had scraped herself out with a clothes hanger?

Did she cause it to happen?
Does it matter whether she did, if she believes she did?
Is she less guilty than if she had gotten an abortion?
The infant isn't less dead, after all.

For the record, the woman in question is not me...it is my mother, some 8 years ago. I don't know whether it still eats at her. It still eats at me. That was my baby brother or sister. So I don't have guilt to overcome...I have anger. I just wondered what other people's thoughts on the matter were.

Also she already had 4 kids at the time, and has had 3 more since. She doesn't believe in birth control, although she has now been on it since the Dr. told her another pregnancy would probably kill her.

I forgot to mention- she also has a tale about a 'vision' she had of 'the hand of God' reaching down to remove the baby from her womb, and says that it was after that vision she knew the baby was gone.

Answer 1

I would rather my mother know she had a choice in her decisions and thoughts even if she was subjected to a still born death due to the umbilical cord wrapped around my sister's neck.

I could be mad at the doctor who asked my mother over the phone (when her water broke) what colour the water was and told her everything was fine when he heard it was tinged yellow.
I could be mad at the fact that they didn't tell her the baby was dead, took her out of the delivery room too fast for my mother to hear her cry. (They only told her after she started asking to hold her baby).
I could be mad at my mother for not knowing more about her pregnacy. I could be mad at the fact that she didn't DEMAND to know what was going on.
But this happened in '83. So what women know now in terms of pregancy and all the varying books on the subject is different.

My sister even had a funeral with a very small casket.
Am I angry about what happened? No. I've grieved about it.
Which is something that you obviously have not done.

You are too rigid in your thought process with yourself, loved ones and other people and it's taking it's toll. You can never know what a person is thinking. Nor is it up to you on what a person should think. Free will. You can't know what that person is going through at the time and all the fall backs associated with it. It is never up to you to control what a person is thinking or be filled with anger because of that person's own thoughts and choices.
Your anger stems from something else and you should look into that before it takes you down with it.

Answer 2

If said mother lost the child, then there is a reason. Only God knows the reason. She is not guilty of murder she did not wish to kill the child, just not to have it. So God, for whatever reason, whether her wish or his, took the child back.
As for the second part about the girl with shorts. The man is sinning by doing this, looking apon a woman with lust.
In some ways the second half of what the mother said is true, if a woman dress' provocativly with the intent to cause this reaction, then it is her fault and she is indeed sinning.
But if she is not doing so to cause this reaction it is not her fault and she is not sinning. Parents make children very self concious about things like this and they pass it down. My mother had some things like that she was the same way about. But as I have grown I realize the difference that some people take to the extreme.
Hope that helps.

Answer 3

I'd be interested to explore the idea that if you think something, it's the same as committing it: On a realistic, or practical measure, they are not the same things. Religion recognizes two different types of sin, between human and human, and human and God.

God has infinite compassion and mercy, so while crimes against God are very serious, the sins we should concern ourselves with most in our limited forms on Earth is sin between person-to-person. So, at least within this religious mind frame concern yourself more with rape prevention than with preventing dirty thoughts.

Two, the woman seems to be suffering some overwhelming guilt. Professional help may be worthwhile.

Please consider that just because the same outcome resulted from different actions, that the different actions do not necesarily have to be considered the same. For example, if someone dies because I killed them with a gun, we cannot say that it is equivelant to if someone dies because they've had complications with a medicine that I've prescribed that I genuinely feel would have been beneficial.

God bless, I hope you/the woman find peace.

Answer 4

If said woman were Xtian then.. YES.. it would be considered her sinning because she thought about it.
Praying for herself NOT to have the baby is the same thing as having an abortion or a purposely made miscarriage.
Either way she DIDN'T want to have that baby which makes her a murder in either case

Answer 5

thats interesting. i dont understand who your angry with.if its god, it his child he has the right to take it just like he can take any of us. and i also believe in god but i had to chuckle a bit at this. im not trying to be a ***** here but what makes your mom so special that god just shows up and answers a prayer like that?sorry i just think its silly to believe that the woman - your mother- had a part in it other than stressing out so much she miscarried. if its your mother your angry with, i think you have an issue because just thinking something does not make you a sinner. and lastly, no she is not guilty of murder as she wouldnt be even if she had used a clothes hanger. have a wonderful day......

Answer 6

She's not guilty. It helps to believe that God (or life) always does what's best for us. She needs to think of what good will come from this experience. It's a very difficult experience. She needs to work on herself to overcome her feelings of guilt.

Answer 7

When you pray, you put the answer in the Lord's hands, you give the final decision to Him. I believe that the scriptures were never meant to be interpreted in such a way as to torment your thinking, but to give a guideline for good decision making. Have faith that things will work out for the good.

Answer 8

Haha!

Funny question. OK, by religious nutjobs, abortion is murder, correct?

And so then she prayed to God to murder her child, correct?

And then God murdered her child, correct?

So, using your rationale, she would be guilty of murder. I realize its not your particular rationale, but the rationale used by Xtians who can't think for themselves, and believe the most contradictory hypocritical shiat you can imagine.

Answer 9

You're an idiot. I HATE bible thumpers. Why don't you do everyone a favor and keep this garbage to yourself. By the way, the clothes hanger comment was the perfect touch to show how crazy you freaks really are, and what you think of on a daily basis.

GET A LIFE!

Answer 10

Don't feel guilty.Not everyone is ready to be a parent.In the future you should use a form of birth control,and seek some conselling.