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It seems that whatever any Christian says these days provokes 'total outrage' in the Muslim world. Well, 'moderate Christians', like me, are getting pretty tired of your 'total outrage' at the drop of a hat. You are making it very hard for people like me to defend your positions, and frankly, if 'moderate Muslims' don't stand up and start being 'moderate', you are going to create more 'extremist' Christians. (Like I said. I regard myself as 'moderate' but I am also starting to become 'irritated' by the antics of the Muslim World.) I don't particularly like the Catholic Church, but was what the Pope said so terrible, or has Islam now become a religion of 'angels'? You know that is not true.
Please, don't turn the entire Christian world against you, because then you are looking for more trouble than you can handle. Hasn't history taught you that a 'provoked and righteous' Christian is merciless. We utterly destroy entire cities (Germany) and do even worse things (Japan)

2006-09-16 05:37:55 · 15 answers · asked by Anonymous in News & Events Current Events

Stop your phony 'outrages', please. Or should I say stop trying to intimidate the entire world!

2006-09-16 05:39:35 · update #1

Good point Avondrow.

2006-09-16 05:55:51 · update #2

15 answers

Exactly. Yep, you got it exactly right. I was very tolerant at one time. Then, I wondered, and wondered, and wondered, "Where are the moderate Muslims?" Finally, someone told me....they are sitting at home but giving asylum and giving of their wealth.

Among Muslims there are those who:
a) jihad in the path of Allah with their wealth and their lives (including those who sit at home but give asylum to mujahidin 4:74) = true Muslim
b) those who sit at home (and do not give asylum to mujahidin or jihad in the path of Allah)
c) the handicapped (does not count as a category)
d) apostates (does not count as a category because they are not even considered to be Muslims and may even be killed like Sunni kill Shia)

In the Quran 4:95 it says:
The two are not equal: those who sit at home (and do not join the fighting) _ unless they have a reason; they are handicapped _ and those who [jihad] strive hard in the path of Allah with their wealth and lives. Over those who sit at home, Allah has excelled and elevated to a higher honor those who strive hard with their wealth and lives. Compared to those who sit at home, Allah will award a far greater reward to those who wage a struggle.

8:74 Those who believed, left their homes and waged a struggle for the cause of Allah as well as those who helped and protected them are really the true believers. There is forgiveness for them and a generous rewards.

49:15 The (true) believers are actually those who believe in Allah and His messenger and then do not waver (and do not entertain doubts). With their wealth and their lives, they strive for the sake of Allah. Such are truly the sincere ones

Yes, indeed, "Where are the moderate Muslims?"
Killing (qitl) and jihad in the cause of Allah is the hallmark of true Muslim believers. It is not a matter of moderate or fanatic. It is the distinction of a true believer or a rebel.

4:76 Those who believe, do fight for the sake of Allah, while those who reject faith (Islam) fight for the cause of ‘taghut’ _ (all rebellious forces aligned against Allah). So, fight against the minions of Shaitan. Feeble indeed is the wily guile of Shaitan!

Does this include atomic weapons?

8:60 Acquire and prepare all the (military) strength you can muster, including the finest trained horses (and other military wares). With that, you would daunt and deter the enemies of Allah _ your enemies, and others besides them. You do not know them, but Allah (surely) knows them. Anything you spend in the path of Allah will be returned to you in full. You will not be wronged (at all).

2:216 Warfare (for the sake of Allah) has been ordained for you, though it is not something you like. It is possible that the thing you detest might just (turn out to) be good for you. It is possible that the thing you like (the most) might in reality be bad for you. Allah knows (all) while you know nothing (at all)!

Well, of course Muslims are indignant and outraged. It is part of the hype. It is a tenet of Islam that any time the religion is attacked that all Muslims have a duty to defend it. Violence gets attention. Muslims are adept at using violence and getting media attention. I wonder what level of protection the Swiss guards at the Vatican provide? What kind of weapons do they have?

Some contemporary evangelical Christian leaders such as Jerry Falwell and Jerry Vines have called Muhammad "a terrorist" and a "demon possessed pedophile who had twelve wives". Daniel Pipes sees Muhammad as a politician, stating that "because Muhammad created a new community, the religion that was its raison d'etre had to meet the political needs of its adherents." By contrast, Pope Benedict quoting Manual II is quite mild.

Pope Benedict made the comments in a speech at the University of Regensburg which was probably a written speech so the comments were likely deliberate. The timing just before Ramadan may also have been deliberate. (Dates for Ramadan 2006 (or the Islamic year of 1427) are September 24th thru October 23rd.) In my opinion, the quote was appropriate for the times of the Crusades. The quote also seems applicable to Islamic jihhadists today.

Here is what Robbie Burns wrote and I think it can also be applied to jihaddists of today although it was written for Christians:
"On Thanksgiving For A National Victory"
Ye hypocrites are these your pranks
to murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame proceed no further
God does ne want your thanks for murder.

Yah, I know, there is no compulsion in religion (2:256) and Islam is a peaceful religion. Taqiyah.

The one page essay by Dr. Walid Phares, "Islamic concept of Al-Taqiyah to infiltrate and destroy kafir countries" explains how a convert will become a terrorist:
http://www.fisiusa.org/fisi_News_items/news109.htm

Phares states, "It [taqiyah] is done to prevent the new converts from seeing the real face of Islam; at least until their faith or mental conditioning is strong enough to make them turn against their own country and people."

Not all Muslims blow up things, yet "jihad in the cause of Allah" "jihad fee sybil Allah" is "fard ayn" "compulsory duty" for all Muslims. Why? There are rules from the Quran for combattive jihad. Read this:
http://www.notislam.com/id8.html
What does the tape from Gadahn mean? Does anyone realize that Muslims are supposed to "dawa" "invite others to Islam" before jihad?

According to al-Mawardi an 11th Century Shafi'i jurist:

The mushrikun [infidels] of Dar al-Harb (the arena of battle) are of two types: First, those whom the call of Islam has reached, but they have refused it and have taken up arms.… Second, those whom the invitation to Islam has not reached, although such persons are few nowadays since Allah has made manifest the call of his Messenger…it is forbidden to…begin an attack before explaining the invitation to Islam to them, informing them of the miracles of the Prophet and making plain the proofs so as to encourage acceptance on their part; if they still refuse to accept after this, war is waged against them and they are treated as those whom the call has reached…

In the Hidayah, vol. II. p. 140 (Hanafi school):
It is not lawful to make war upon any people who have never before been called to the faith, without previously requiring them to embrace it, because the Prophet so instructed his commanders, directing them to call the infidels to the faith, and also because the people will hence perceive that they are attacked for the sake of religion, and not for the sake of taking their property, or making slaves of their children, and on this consideration it is possible that they may be induced to agree to the call, in order to save themselves from the troubles of war… If the infidels, upon receiving the call, neither consent to it nor agree to pay capitation tax, it is then incumbent on the Muslims to call upon God for assistance, and to make war upon them, because God is the assistant of those who serve Him, and the destroyer of His enemies, the infidels, and it is necessary to implore His aid upon every occasion; the Prophet, moreover, commands us so to do."

Islam is insidious, it encroaches on a culture slowly and deliberately. You may be interested to read a document which discusses the degrees of Islam in great detail (50+ pages) -- "From dawa to jihad - the various threats from radical Islam to the democratic legal order":
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/netherlands/dawa.pdf

So now we know where the moderate Muslims are. We know much more about the peaceful religion of Islam. Two of the links below are to websites with up to 10 English translations of the Qur'an. Read the entire sura from which the quotes were extracted to get the proper context and read all 10 English translations to see if it makes any difference.

2006-09-16 10:23:36 · answer #1 · answered by Anonymous · 3 0

The sad thing is the Muslim nations are not doing themselves any good. We have to accept that riots and burning effigy's are the work of radicals stirring up hatred. However there is an undercurrent of hate being built up in both sides of the arguments. It seems to non Muslims that any discussion or argument is a reason for outrages behaviour by some Muslims. I read what the Pope actually said and it may have been miss judged but what not a reason for the things that followed. How can we find a solution to problems without dialogue. Every time a Muslim cleric spouts damnation against Christian countries we do not riot in the streets or burn things. However I feel that soon we must face the fact that unless people moderate Muslims lead their nations things will only get worse. Islam is peace yet the minority is again destroying the welfare of the majority in a religion.

2006-09-16 22:46:52 · answer #2 · answered by deadly 4 · 0 0

The full text of the speech is on the Vatican website. Found it last night. Perhaps Muslims and Christians should read the whole speech before their kneejerk reactions(Muslim) or criticisms(Christian).

Everybody should remember that "the masses" around the world are manipulated by the media who often deliberately report excerpts of speeches in order to provoke newsworthy and undignified reactions from various groups.

They treat "the masses" like puppets. Pull certain strings and then "OOh look!! They are rioting again!!" Don't fall for it. Our Muslim brothers and sisters would do well to check out the information before they start shouting and yelling and making a mockery of themselves.

Moderate Christians - I don't blame them getting irritated either, but they too should remember that it suits certain parties to make them irritated with the Muslims. So the Xns should also resist their irritation and see how they too are being manipulated.

I think many Muslims may have been especially upset as there was great respect and affection for the last pope and so Pope Benedict even thinking of quoting the offensive statement - very disappointing and ill-judged. But he has apologised.

2006-09-16 09:20:21 · answer #3 · answered by mutaali t 3 · 0 1

The Pope is showing off his ignorant knowledge about Islam, There is approximately 1.6 billion Muslims in the world if the Pope is right then why isn’t 1.6 Billion Muslims bombing the world right now? There is a small minority of the so called "Islamic terrorists" and i wouldnt even consider them as Muslims. If the Pope actually read some Hadiths he will realise what Islam teaches (God knows what the Popes been reading)


I personally think a Muslim scholor should debate this issue with the Pope and sort the problem out (Which is very very unlikely unless you paid a person to keep a beared and say he is a Muslims scholor ) Maybe the Muslims have been saying things about Christianity and maybe Christians have been saying things about Islam, So what? If you want to see if your right or wrong read the Bible or Quran before you speack. I guess the Pope didnt get very far because the basic fundamental explanation to Islam is Peace. I advise the Pope to use a dictionary.

Islam means peace not violence or terrorism

2006-09-16 07:09:05 · answer #4 · answered by Farhan 3 · 0 3

The Quran is a fake Bible. Look for prophecies. If the book says something will happen and it happens, then it is the right book. Deuteronomy says that the Israelites will go into slavery off of ships. The Negroes went into slavery off of ships. The Bible is the truth. The names are lies. All of the names are in Hebrew and not greek or english. The Messiah's name is Yashahyah. This is the name you will have to believe on to be saved. religion wasmade to hide the way to the tre GOD. All religion is man made.

2016-03-27 04:04:23 · answer #5 · answered by Anonymous · 0 0

The Pope has no reason to apologize, the full text http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=46474 he quoted a 14th century emperor and it was taken out of context. I know of no other religion in recent history that has been as militant, radical, and terroristic as the Islamic radicals. Almost all terrorist acts have been in the name of Islam, all beheadings, suicide bombing, and torture has been in the name of Islam. The rest of the world should demand an apology from the Islamic clerics, and a pledge for them to stop the senseless violence done by these so called true believers.

The following was provided by another member in response to a similar question, it seems to reinforce the propensity toward violence.

Ishaq:544 “Muhammad commanded the people to prepare for the foray [raid, incursion, sortie, attack, or assault]. The Messenger informed his troops that he was going to Mecca. He ordered them to prepare themselves and ready their equipment quickly. He said, ‘O Allah, keep spies and news from the Quraysh until we take them by surprise in their land.'” Fundamental Islamic organizations like Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, and al-Qaeda offer the same prayer today.

Ishaq:544 “Hassan incited the men, reciting: ‘This is the time for war. Don't feel safe from us. Our swords will open the door to death.'” And so it would be forevermore.

Qur'an 9.5 “When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, beleaguer them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

2006-09-16 08:51:40 · answer #6 · answered by lobo 4 · 1 0

In what planet live you all people, had you see a Cristian justifying a mass murder since the 17 Century?, have you seen Cristian in TV everyday claming to kill, and blood, cause i don't see them, nor Budhist, not Jova Witness, but i see all the life of our country treath by them every single day...threating us for "AFGANISTAN???", what we we would have to do...? close the eyes and look away, when they declared that London will be Next than New York?

Irak...Hussein claimed for 15 years the destruction of USA, so ...well done...if you look for trouble you know that eventually you have to got it... and Sunnis Kills 50 or 60 Shiitas a week and i don't see any muslim complaining...

In Suddam 2 million of people is near to die, muslims by hand of muslims, and i don't see any IMAM complaining, but you complain cause BLAIR HAD TO DO THIS, AND WE HAVE TO DO THAT, AND WE HAD TO THINK LIKE THIS...

I am entitled to have my opinion, as the Pope, the sad is that any IMAM could contradict the Pope, CAUSE THERE IS NOT OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF HUMANITY CONSIDERED PROPHET THAT IS RELATED WITH WOMEN CASTRATION, HANDS AND FEET APMUTATION, MURDERING OF MEMBER OF THEIR OWN FAMILY AND PEDOPHILIA...YES, MUHAMED MARRIED A GIRL OF 6 YEARS OLD WHEN HE WAS 50...SO...

i am entitled to have my opinion and also you can have yours, but you have no right to kill people for their ideas.

In what part of the history of human rights I HAVE TO AGREE that Muhamed is even anybody, did i force Muslims to acept that the stone outside my house is Blessed by God himself this morning... BECAUSE I KNOW...

Where this stupidity goes... i have the right to express my opinion and finish of the story and if yu don't like it get the **** out to your country...

2006-09-18 08:20:50 · answer #7 · answered by antimuslim100000 1 · 0 0

Ok, let Islam declare a Holy War on the Vatican.
I bet $50 the catholics kick the hell out of Islam.

2006-09-16 07:17:50 · answer #8 · answered by exert-7 7 · 0 0

I think the Muslim protesters represent Islam about as well as Fred Phelps represents Christianity.

2006-09-16 07:35:37 · answer #9 · answered by dryheatdave 6 · 1 0

I don't disagree, but would point out that you could substitute 'Christian' for 'Muslim' and still be valid. Look at the anti-science, anti-reason stance taken by the Xtian right in neo-con America.
Religion kills folk dead. A pox on all it's variants.

2006-09-16 05:43:32 · answer #10 · answered by Avondrow 7 · 0 1

Muslims Grow up for god's sake, stop acting like kids...

2006-09-16 06:02:27 · answer #11 · answered by Anonymous · 3 0

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