should the pope,apologise to Muslim leaders?

Question

if so why dont muslims apologise to everyone,for causing so much trouble in the world,and going around killing innocent people

Answer 1

The pope did apologize to Muslims. Muslims, on the other hand believe that they are justified in killing people because those people are not "innocent" according to the definition of innocent in the Qur'an. Killing is prohibited in the Quran unless certain conditions are met. There are many conditions under which kiling is permissible. One of those conditions is if a person blasphemes against Islam or Muhammad. I do not know how many people can be killed for this crime, but the people that were killed would not be considered innocent except if by accident a Muslim were killed.

On Tuesday, September 12th, Pope Benedict XVI made a speech on "Faith and Reason" at the University of Regensburg in Germany and quoted from writings of an erudite 14th Century Byzantine Christian Emperor, Manuel II Palaiologos. Manuel II took notes during his dialogs in 1391 with the Persian Muderris at Ankara and his notebooks were preserved as the "Twenty-six Dialogs with a Persian" on the "truths of Christianity and Islam". The pontiff quoted Manuel II who said that spreading the faith through violence is unreasonable and that acting without reason was against God's nature.

Manuel II's empire had been conquerored by Muslims and was made to pay the jizyah (submission tribute) so naturally he experienced Islam at its worst. Between 1379 and 1402 Byzantium had paid 690,000 hyperpyra (or 345,000 ducats) to the Ottomans.
http://www.roman-emperors.org/manuel2.htm

The pontiff said, "Speaking about the issue of jihad, holy war, the emperor [Manuel II] said, 'Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.'"

"Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul," added the pontiff in his own words.
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/september/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20060912_university-regensburg_en.html
http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=46474

Muslim reaction to that speech spanned from outrage to violence against nuns and churches. An Iraqi insurgent group threatened the Vatican with a suicide attack over the pope's remarks on Islam, according to a statement posted Saturday on the Web.

"We swear to God to send you people who adore death as much as you adore life," said the message posted in the name of the Mujahedeen Army on a Web site frequently used by militant groups. The message's authenticity could not be independently verified. The statement was addressed to "you dog of Rome" and threatens to "shake your thrones and break your crosses in your home."

Full statement by Vatican Secretary of State Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone on Pope Benedict XVI's response to Muslim anger over a speech he gave in Germany Tuesday... the pontiff was "very sorry" if he offended the sensibilities of Muslims worldwide.
http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2006-09/16/05a.shtml

On Sunday, September 17th the pontiff said, " I am deeply sorry for the reactions in some countries to a few passages of my address at the University of Regensburg, which were considered offensive to the sensibility of Muslims."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5353774.stm

Wednesday, September 22, the pope said, "I wished to explain that not religion and violence but religion and reason go together," he said.

Pope Benedict has invited the ambassadors of Muslim countries at the Vatican, as well as leaders of Italy's own Muslim community, to a meeting on Monday at his summer palace.

Pope Benedict has the right to speak, he can certainly quote from the Bible and he can quote former Popes. His "apology" that he regrets Muslims became upset is appropriate because Muslims are always offended and humiliated whenever anything is said about Islam that is unflattering.

Pope Benedict made the comments in a speech at the University of Regensburg which was probably a written speech and his remarks were probably carefully researched and edited. In my opinion, the quote was appropriate for the times of the Crusades. The quote also seems applicable to Islamic jihhadists today.

Of course Muslims are outraged. It is a tenet of Islam that any time the religion is attacked that all Muslims have a duty to defend it. Violence gets attention. The timing of the speech is just before Ramadan. (Dates for Ramadan 2006 (or the Islamic year of 1427) are September 24th thru October 23rd.)

I wonder what level of protection the Swiss guards at the Vatican provide? What kind of weapons do they have?

Some contemporary evangelical Christian leaders such as Jerry Falwell and Jerry Vines have called Muhammad "a terrorist" and a "demon possessed pedophile who had twelve wives". Daniel Pipes sees Muhammad as a politician, stating that "because Muhammad created a new community, the religion that was its raison d'etre had to meet the political needs of its adherents." By contrast, Pope Benedict quoting Manual II is quite mild.

Here is what Robbie Burns wrote and I think it can also be applied to jihaddists of today although it was written for Christians:
"On Thanksgiving For A National Victory"
Ye hypocrites are these your pranks
to murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame proceed no further
God does ne want your thanks for murder.

Yah, I know, there is no compulsion in religion (2:256) and Islam is a peaceful religion. Taqiyah.

The one page essay by Dr. Walid Phares, "Islamic concept of Al-Taqiyah to infiltrate and destroy kafir countries" explains how a convert will become a terrorist:
http://www.fisiusa.org/fisi_News_items/news109.htm

Phares states, "It [taqiyah] is done to prevent the new converts from seeing the real face of Islam; at least until their faith or mental conditioning is strong enough to make them turn against their own country and people."

Not all Muslims blow up things, yet "jihad in the cause of Allah" "jihad fee sybil Allah" is "fard ayn" "compulsory duty" for all Muslims. Why? There are rules from the Quran for combattive jihad. Read this:
http://www.notislam.com/id8.html
What does the tape from Gadahn mean? Does anyone realize that Muslims are supposed to "dawa" "invite others to Islam" before jihad?

According to al-Mawardi an 11th Century Shafi'i jurist:

The mushrikun [infidels] of Dar al-Harb (the arena of battle) are of two types: First, those whom the call of Islam has reached, but they have refused it and have taken up arms.… Second, those whom the invitation to Islam has not reached, although such persons are few nowadays since Allah has made manifest the call of his Messenger…it is forbidden to…begin an attack before explaining the invitation to Islam to them, informing them of the miracles of the Prophet and making plain the proofs so as to encourage acceptance on their part; if they still refuse to accept after this, war is waged against them and they are treated as those whom the call has reached…

In the Hidayah, vol. II. p. 140 (Hanafi school):
It is not lawful to make war upon any people who have never before been called to the faith, without previously requiring them to embrace it, because the Prophet so instructed his commanders, directing them to call the infidels to the faith, and also because the people will hence perceive that they are attacked for the sake of religion, and not for the sake of taking their property, or making slaves of their children, and on this consideration it is possible that they may be induced to agree to the call, in order to save themselves from the troubles of war… If the infidels, upon receiving the call, neither consent to it nor agree to pay capitation tax, it is then incumbent on the Muslims to call upon God for assistance, and to make war upon them, because God is the assistant of those who serve Him, and the destroyer of His enemies, the infidels, and it is necessary to implore His aid upon every occasion; the Prophet, moreover, commands us so to do."

Islam is insidious, it encroaches on a culture slowly and deliberately. Here is a document which discusses the progression of Islam in great detail (50+ pages) -- "From dawa to jihad - the various threats from radical Islam to the democratic legal order":
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/netherlands/dawa.pdf

Among Muslims there are those who:
a) jihad in the path of Allah with their wealth and their lives (including those who sit at home but give asylum to mujahidin 4:74) = true Muslim
b) those who sit at home (and do not give asylum to mujahidin or jihad in the path of Allah)
c) the handicapped (does not count as a category)

According to the Qur'an who is a true believer?

3:140 If you have sustained a wound, _ (a blow in the battlefield) _ others too have suffered a similar kind of wound, earlier. These are the vicissitudes of life that We circulate among mankind by turns. Thus, Allah tests the true believers among you, so He may pick the martyrs among you. Allah does not like the wrongdoers.

4:95 The two are not equal: those who sit at home (and do not join the fighting) _ unless they have a reason; they are handicapped _ and those who [jihad] strive hard in the path of Allah with their wealth and lives. Over those who sit at home, Allah has excelled and elevated to a higher honor those who strive hard with their wealth and lives.
Compared to those who sit at home, Allah will award a far greater reward to those who wage a struggle.

8:74 Those who believed, left their homes and waged a struggle for the cause of Allah as well as those who helped and protected them are really the true believers. There is forgiveness for them and a generous rewards.

49:15 The (true) believers are actually those who believe in Allah and His messenger and then do not waver (and do not entertain doubts). With their wealth and their lives, they strive for the sake of Allah. Such are truly the sincere ones

9:86 As soon as a chapter (of the Qur’an) is revealed (instructing them), “Believe in Allah and wage a struggle along with His messenger” the able bodied (and well to do) among them ask to be exempted. They say, “Leave us (behind). Let us be among those who sit at home

Killing (qitl) and jihad in the cause of Allah is the hallmark of true Muslim believers. It is not a matter of moderate or fanatic. It is the distinction of a true believer or a rebel.

4:76 Those who believe, do fight for the sake of Allah, while those who reject faith (Islam) fight for the cause of ‘taghut’ _ (all rebellious forces aligned against Allah). So, fight against the minions of Shaitan. Feeble indeed is the wily guile of Shaitan!

Does this include atomic weapons?
8:60 Acquire and prepare all the (military) strength you can muster, including the finest trained horses (and other military wares). With that, you would daunt and deter the enemies of Allah _ your enemies, and others besides them. You do not know them, but Allah (surely) knows them. Anything you spend in the path of Allah will be returned to you in full. You will not be wronged (at all).

2:216 Warfare (for the sake of Allah) has been ordained for you, though it is not something you like. It is possible that the thing you detest might just (turn out to) be good for you. It is possible that the thing you like (the most) might in reality be bad for you. Allah knows (all) while you know nothing (at all)!

4:74 Those who have traded away the life of this world for (the benefits of) the life-to-come, ought to fight for the sake of Allah. To anyone who fights for the sake of Allah, We will award the most generous reward whether he is killed (in the process) or comes out victorious.

These verses from the Qur'an can give us insight into the mind of a Muslim believer and the peaceful religion of Islam. Do read the entire sura from which they were extracted to get the entire context of the verses. It may make a difference.

Answer 2

The pope is held in very hi esteem with-in most religions! he is an ambassador of the christian religion and is looked upto by many people, I am not a religious person but he has lost respect from me, if you look into the roots of both the jewish tora (excuse the spelling) and the koran all relate to each other and interlink! you would of never had the late john paul (bless his soul) even contemplate these remarks he will be turning in his grave! he should know better that in the current climate these kind of comments would cause outrage, he says " i want to create debate" why not invite some of the worlds relgiuos leaders and have a debat in private or even in public but a debate!

some people have mentioned that the people behind 911 wouldnt apoligise! these are a minority and the more people alienate and suspect any forgiener of being a bomber the more we alienate people of different cultures and religions! I am British - Persian but I am as white as they come.

There are many things that dont add up with regards to the 911 attacks and americas view on Iran ( dont forget what the IAEA have recently said about Iran & America) if you have doubt have a look at david shyler's comments of cold war tactics.

I wish people would just live side by side but it is just not meant to be! we will turn into a police state where we will have 2 carry id cards and be monitored by the state at all times all because of terrorism, look at the amount of laws that have been introcduced since 911 how much money has been made by the current wars.

well thats enough of a rant I think If anyone has a decent debate or come back by all means replay otherwise for some of you imbeciles out there grow your mind and accept peoples diff views and debate it!

Answer 3

He has nothing to apologise for. He was quoting someone else. The whole thing has been misunderstood. If the people who are demanding an apology had listened to what the Pope was saying they would have understood that he was not insulting the Muslims. I am not in a position to explain exactly what the Pope said and have no intention of adding to the confusion by trying to do so. I know it was to do with how things used to be and how there is more understanding of differences today. Simply that..
Would it not be wise to find out exactly what he said before demanding an apology.

Answer 4

No, he said nothing wrong. For a start, he merely quoted a medieval source, he never passed judgement on it. It's been taken completely out of context.
Secondly, for heavens sake; people say Christians are wrong/committed atrocities in time gone by (like witch burnings) all the time. Do we require that they apologise? No. The only reason it's a big deal is because the voice of Islam at the moment is very irrational and loudmouthed. By normal standards he has done nothing wrong in the least.
Finally, I find it ironic that Islam responds to the implication that they are violent with outraged violence.

Oh, I have nothing against Islam at all, I just think the people who actually felt insulted and think the pope should be killed are twats, should shut the hell up and move with the times like all the other major religions, and the quieter majority of Islam, have done.

Long live free speech.

Answer 5

If one were to only act because another did the same then would be it ok to kill someone because they killed your brother, then it would be ok for their brother to kill you and your sister to kill their mother. One does not act merely because another does, you could ask why doesn't the pope kill innocent people since some muslim leaders may encourage this....but in fact several hundred years ago the Pope may have encouraged this. But I do believe that evil begets evil and therefore peace begets peace and therefore the Pope becomes a more magnaminous person by expressing humility.

Answer 6

Pope has said nothing to apologise for. He quoted a statement written about 600 years ago regarding Mohammed. He didn't say that he himself accepted or agreed with the statement. All he only made a reference to the statement at a lecture. If the mussies won't wage a war against the original writer of the statement why does the pope have to apologise for making a reference to the same statement. I think these islamic fanatics should get a life and find something else to do than causing trouble where there is none. Let's be realistic, islam does not teach murder and suicide bombing and truly speaking, Mohammed has brought nothing new to the world of religion.

Answer 7

Pope Benedict XVI is spiritual leader of one-sixth of the people living on this planet.
What His Holiness stated in his lecture was previewed by muslim clerics, who raised no objections.
The usual rabble of trouble-makers in Islam are to blame for the present debacle.
As for some writers calling the Pope a Nazi and worse, they ought to be ashamed.
PS
The Pope is titular head-of-state of the Vatican.

Answer 8

Definitely not! Why should he? It's ok for them to spout whatever they feel like, and not even in their own country. There was a Muslim on TV the other day saying that if the pope did not retract what he said then who knows what the repercussions would be...that sounds too much like a threat to me and I think it's about time they stopped terrorising us with their actions and threats. We shouldn't have to listen to this on our news, they shouldn't be given a voice. We would certainly not be allowed to speak so damningly or freely in their countries.

Answer 9

Read this article and judge for yourself

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Al Qaeda militants in Iraq vowed war on "worshippers of the cross" and protesters burned a papal effigy on Monday over Pope Benedict's comments on Islam, while Western churchmen and statesmen tried to calm passions.

The statement by an umbrella group led by Iraq's branch of al Qaeda came after the Pontiff said on Sunday he was deeply sorry Muslims had been offended by his use of a medieval quotation on Islam and holy war.

"We tell the worshipper of the cross (the Pope) that you and the West will be defeated, as is the case in Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya," said a Web statement by the Mujahideen Shura Council.

"We shall break the cross and spill the wine ... God will (help) Muslims to conquer Rome ... (May) God enable us to slit their throats, and make their money and descendants the bounty of the mujahideen," said the statement, posted on Sunday on an Internet site often used by al Qaeda and other militant groups.

Answer 10

I think yes,there are other ways to make some so called muslims behave ,just send them back home,without too much fuss,the same with anybody who thinks western society is so easy going.remember john reid was told what is he doing in a muslim area,that says everything!

Answer 11

The pope expressed an opinion; if the muslims don't like it , that is their problem. the world does not revolve around them and never will.

They have a reputation in the Western world that is less than perfect: what are the less psychopathic muslims doing to improve their image? Do I hear nothing? Didn't see that coming!