D-Day Dodgers?

Question

I am presently looking for information on the 6th Armies advances into Italy during 1944 as my grandfather was killed in Rimini during this time. What is becoming so frustrating is the serious lack of history books on the Italian advance. I can't help but feel if my grandfather was part of the D-day invasion there would be no end of resources. Why is this? Why is there such an historic bias towards this one slice of the second world war? Whilst all other theatres are completely neglected , (Pacific, African, Russia battles)

Bit of an error here, I meant 8th Army, not 6th. And I am located in the UK and my Grandfather fought for the King Own Yorkshire Light Infantry, (even though he was from Lancashire, not sure how he managed that!!).

Answer 1

My own father (a Lancastrian like your grandad) was also on the Rimini Line after having pursued the Axis forces from North Africa up through Italy. When alive, he was always reading books on the Italian Campaign, and some of these were from the German perspective, too. So these books are, or certainly were, out there. I'm told there are military chat-rooms; these might help. But a goldseam source would be the Regimental Histories which each regiment writes on its actions. The National Army Museum in Chelsea would, I'm sure, also be able to suggest further reading at all levels of interest.
By the way, my father told the tale of how two trainloads of British troops moving slowly past each other in France, but one containing troops homebound from Italy the other "second front" troops, attacked each other as the trains passed. Such were the negative feelings engendered by that infamous "D-Day Dodger" song. I think fighting through the Desert against Rommel, landing in Italy, fighting up through the Apennines, being almost massacred at Monte Cassino and then running up hard against the Gothic Line, meant these Italian Campaign soldiers were second to none.

Answer 2

I don't know too much about the British army (I was in the US army) but if it's anything like ours, then here's something that might help. Most, if not all, of our divisions and armies and such have veterans associations and historians and other groups or individuals dedicated to preserving the history of a particular unit. You could contact his unit and request information through them. I'm sure they have records or other veterans who could give you some help. There's no telling what you could find out.

I can see your point about attention being paid to particualt theaters of war. But think of it this way: for WWII Britain, the main threat was Germany. The Nazis all but surrounded Britain. The immediate threat was there, so that's where most of the fighting occured, so that's where most attention is paid. Also, I think that the major participant in a theater takes most of the headlines. For example, the US is overshadowed in North Africa by the Brits, the Brits are overshadowed in the Pacific and Italy by the US. In Africa the British played the larger part, and in the Pacific and Italy, the larger force was American. That's not to say that this practice is very respectful or correct, but think about how little attention is paid to the Canadians or Polish or Free-French forces in the war.

Well. that's what little help I can offer. Good luck in your quest. I hope you find what you're looking for.

Answer 3

Ah, you refer to perhaps my favorite WWII song--collected originally, I believe, by Hamish Henderson of one of the Highland Divisions.

Now I don't know where you're located. I think the British pay more attention to the Italian Campaign than Americans do; I don't know about other groups.

On the other hand, I think Americans at least pay attention to the Pacific War--perhaps not as much as the "D-Day to the Bulge to crossing the Rhine" but enough that I would not call it neglected.

It is quite possible that the memoirs that came out of the Italian campaigns are of higher quality than those from other parts of the ETO or the Pacific theater.

But people want a story line they can follow. I know this because I teach the history of the US Civil War and people find it hard enough to take in the western theater and the Virginia theater without learning about other aspects of the war, and people have favorite battles that they find it easier to follow, not because of complexity of the combat but because they know the main players. (Trust me, the various commanders in the Seven Days Battles drive people nuts.)

So the simplified story is Americans land at D-Day with the Brits and beat the Germans; Americans fight their way island to island in the Pacific. (I don't think people even realize the Pacific war advance was two-pronged.)

Also, people want to follow the story where they have an emotional investment. If a theater had few Americans, Americans are less interested.

And most people want to believe their heroes won the war.

How many Americans know the German suffered 80% of their casualties on the Eastern Front? No Americans there, and the Cold War didn't make each side likely to acknowledge the other's contributions.

PS, I'm American. My father served in north Africa and then in the south of France operations, in the 7th Army, and eventually got as far as Prague. Hard to find stuff on TORCH, etc too.

PPS. Well, I checked around in my library and talked to a few folks.

John Ellis's book CASSINO: THE HOLLOW VICTORY is considered one of the best books on the Italian Campaign. I think it's great.

While his book THE SHARP END: FIGHTING MAN IN WORLD WAR II is not specifically about the Italian Campiagn, it is a great book on British and American soldiers.

And do you know Farley Mowat's AND NO BIRDS SANG, his memoir of the Italian Campaign. I think he served with the Royal Canadians.

I haven't read Robin Niellands, EIGHT ARMY: FROMTHE WESTERN DESERT TO THE ALPS but my friends recommend it.

Answer 4

I was a gaoler in London during the '70s and one of my regular guests was an alcoholic D-Day Dodger. He said that the source of the phrase D-Day Dodger was one Lady (Nora) Docker who was important because she was married to someone who was. He said she asked in the House of Lords why the 6th Army was sunning itself in Italy while the rest of Britain's finest were invading France. Her qualities can be inferred by looking at a series of cars, the Docker Daimlers, bulit in the early 50s, the interior of which she designed with a complete lack of taste. You can envision the last one by its name, Golden Zebra. This proved a step too far for the Daimler board and her husband was desposed as its head.

The derision that she directed towards the 6th stuck and it became the forgotten campaign. This despite the fact that our casualties were tremendous. My 'guest' would recite the names of his comrades who had died whilst his unit worked its way up the leg of Italy. He died in a street off Fleet Street in his own vomit after an ulcer burst. He could have been no more that 25-30 at the time of the campaign yet had made the rank of Major. What a waste.

Answer 5

I can't help you with your core question but I may be able to explain how your Lancastrian grandfather joined the KOYLI.

My grandfather served in that regiment during the First World War, despite being a Londoner himself. It happened because the regiment was recruiting on the forecourt of the "Yorkshire Grey" pub. I guess it's just a matter of where people are when the desire to enlist overtakes them.

Answer 6

Denis Healey the Labour Politician was a D-Day Dodger, there may be some sources in books/autobiographies about him.

Answer 7

UKjess - Denis Healey was a beachmaster on D-Day.

Answer 8

I'll be advancing my army to those bastards that keep copying my avatar!

Answer 9

good luck with your quest.
my grandfather was on the d-day beaches with his brother and luckly servived and i have their story in his brothers words
all the best and good luck once again