Do Libs realize that every Democracy throughout history has had to give up some liberties in times of crisis?

Question

Or do you not think that Radical Islam is a threat to our survival?

"The law is made for the state, not the state for the law. If the circumstances are such that a choice must be made between the two, it is the law which must be sacrifced to the state, salus populi suprema lex esto"

Abraham Lincoln

canbeatpar,

The issue is in the fact that I do so radical Islam as a threat and you do not. This is not something that has been thrown upon me in the past few years to justify the war in Iraq, which is actually against Iran who is funding the insurgency.

Here are few instances that can show the progression of Islam a worldwide threat...

NOVEMBER 1979: ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS STORMED THE U.S. EMBASSY IN IRAN HOLDING 70 AMERICANS HOSTAGE. JIMMY CARTER'S RESPONSE - CANCELLATION OF IRANIAN VISAS, HALTING OF OIL IMPORTS, AND A FAILED RESCUE ATTEMPT IN WHICH OUR HELICOPTERS CRASHED IN THE DESERT, KILLING EIGHT SOLDIERS.


OCTOBER 1983: ISLAMIC SUICIDE BOMBER IN A TRUCK EXPLODES AT A U.S. MARINE BARRACKS AT BEIRUT INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT KILLING 241 U.S. MARINES. RONALD REAGAN'S RESPONSE - CLAIMED HE WOULD NOT SURRENDER TO TERORIST DEMANDS, LATER WITHDREW U.S. TROOPS.


DECEMBER 1983: U.S. EMBASSY IN KUWAIT WAS BOMBED BY A SERIES OF ISLAMIC ATTACKS KILLING SIX, INJURING 80 MORE. RONALD REAGAN'S RESPONSE - DISPATCHES FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY DONALD RUMSFIELD AS SPECIAL ENVOY TO IRAQ FOR "PEACE RELATIONS".

MARCH 1984: CIA STATION CHIEF WILLIAM BUCKLEY BECOMES THE FOURTH, OF AN EVENTUAL 30 AMERICANS TO BE KIDNAPPED AND HELD HOSTAGE BY ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS IN LEBANON. RONALD REAGAN'S RESPONSE - STRIKES A DEAL WITH IRAN TO TRADE WEAPONS FOR HOSTAGES, DESPITE THE BANNED SALE BY CONGRESS OF AMERICAN ARMS TO COUNTRIES WHO SUPPORT TERRORISM.


DECEMBER 1984: KUWAIT AIRWAYS FLIGHT #221 WAS HIJACKED BY ISLAMIC RADICALS RESULTING IN THE DEATH OF TWO AMERICAN OFFICIALS FROM THE U.S. AGENCY FOR INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT. RONALD REAGAN'S RESPONSE - POSTED A $250,000 REWARD FOR INFORMATION LEADING TO THE ARRESTS OF THOSE INVOLVED IN THE HIJACKING.


OCTOBER 1985: FOUR ISLAMIC GUNMEN HIJACKED THE ITALIAN CRUISE SHIP ACHILLE LAURO, KILLING AN AMERICAN TOURIST. RONALD REAGAN'S RESPONSE - ORDERED AMERICAN FIGHTER PILOTS IN A SUCCESSFUL RESCUE MISSION, CAPTURING THE HIJACKERS (THE ITALIANS THEN RELEASED THEM TO SAFE HARBOR IN IRAQ).

APRIL 1986: ONE AMERICAN WAS KILLED BY BOMBING FROM ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS IN WEST BERLIN. RONALD REAGAN'S RESPONSE - DESPITE FRANCE REFUSING THE USE OF THEIR AIRSPACE, BOMBED LIBYA AND THEN DROPPED A BOMB ON THE FRENCH EMBASSY "BY MISTAKE" :)


FEBRUARY 1993: THE WORLD TRADE CENTER WAS BOMBED BY ISLAMIC FANATICS, KILLING FIVE PEOPLE AND INJURING HUNDREDS. BILL CLINTON'S RESPONSE - ORDERED FBI FORENSIC CHEMISTS TO DISPOSE OF THE UNWANTED DEBRIS ACCORDING TO E.P.A. GUIDELINES.

NOVEMBER 1995: A CAR BOMB IN SAUDI ARABIA, SET BY ISLAM EXTREMES, KILLS FIVE AMERICANS AND WOUNDS 30 MORE. BILL CLINTON'S RESPONSE - ORDERED THE AIR FORCE AND ARMY TO RELOCATE TO TEMPORARY FACILITIES.


JUNE 1996: U.S. AIR FORCE HOUSING COMPLEX IN SAUDI ARABIA WAS BOMBED BY ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS KILLING 19 AMERICANS AND WOUNDING HUNDREDS MORE. BILL CLINTON'S RESPONSE - "IT MAY BE THAT THE IRANIAN PEOPLE HAVE TAUGHT TO HATE OR DISTRUST THE UNITED STATES ON THE GROUNDS THAT WE ARE INFIDELS AND OUTSIDE THE FAITH. AND THEREFORE, IT IS EASY FOR US TO BE ANGRY AND RESPOND IN KIND."

NOVEMBER 1997: IRAQ REFUSED TO ALLOW U.N. WEAPON INSPECTIONS (AN AGREEMENT FROM THE PERSIAN GULF WAR) AND THREATENED TO SHOOT DOWN A U.S. U-2 SPY PLANE. BILL CLINTON'S RESPONSE - NONE, DESPITE REPUBLICAN SENATE MINORITY LEADER TRENT LOTT'S STATEMENT ON C.N.N. "THE PRESIDENT WILL HAVE BIPARTISAN SUPPORT IF HE WILL ACT DECISVELY."


AUGUST 1998: U.S. EMBASSIES IN KENYA AND TANZANIA WERE BOMBED BY ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS KILLING 258 AND INJURING MORE THAN 5,000. BILL CLINTON'S RESPONSE - INEFFECTIVE BOMBING RESULTING IN THE DEATH OF AN INNOCENT CAMEL IN AFGHANISTAN AND THE DESTRUCTION OF A PHARMACEUTICAL FACTORY IN SUDAN.


OCTOBER 2000: THE WARSHIP, USS COLE, WAS ATTACKED BY ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS KILLING 17 U.S. SAILORS. BILL CLINTON'S RESPONSE - AFTER DECLARING, "WE WILL FIND OUT WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE AND HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE" HE DID NOTHING.

SEPTEMBER 2001: ISLAMIC TERRORISTS HIJACKED FOUR U.S. PLANES, RAMMING THEM INTO BOTH WORLD TRADE TOWERS, THE PENTAGON, AND AN OPEN FIELD IN PENNSYLVANIA KILLING OVER 3,000 AMERICANS. GEORGE W. BUSH'S RESPONSE - DECLARED WAR ON TERRORISM WITH THE IMMOBILIZATION OF OSAMA BIN LADEN AND CAPTURE OF SADDAM HUSSEIN.

http://hometown.aol.com/corywerking/politics-waronterrorism.html

Answer 1

Go find one and ask him.

This is a Redpublican Forum there are no Democrats or Liberals here.


Go big Red Go

Answer 2

"Radical Islam" doesn't really exist. Islamic extremists do, but they're a tiny, tiny minority who don't speak for the vast numbers of people whose faith they falsely claim to represent.

Islam is the world's second largest religion, and the world's Muslims aren't going anywhere. The problem is that even a tiny percentage of 1.7 billion people represents a dangerously large number of psychopathic individuals willing to kill themselves to strike at their perceived enemies- but the key to defeating them lies in the larger Islamic community actively denouncing and isolating them- which is finally beginning to happen.

The US government currently being about as popular as a child molester in the international community has contributed to this happening so slowly. And yes, when dealing with foreign cultures and governments who have a much better handle on who the bad guys are and where they've been, cooperation beats indifference or hostility. Yes, it matters when we burn our diplomatic bridges!

Benjamin Franklin wrote:

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

(Pennsylvania Assembly: Reply to the Governor, Tue, Nov 11, 1755)

Answer 3

Define for me the end of this crisis, and then we'll talk.

From the way it's been framed, the "crisis" will continue as long as there is someone out there armed with a knife who doesn't like America - which means forever. Bush has even called this "The Long War"

We were attacked by 19 guy s with knives, so we have to give up on freedoms?

I personally don't think our freedoms make us weaker, but rather believe them to be a source of strength. The only reason you would give up on a freedom in time of crisis is that you believe freedoms weaken our nation.

Answer 4

In the words of Patrick Henry "Give me liberty, or give me death". You must not have been paying attention in history class. This country was founded on the liberties and freedoms that have made it what it is. Heres how it goes "Where just gonna take a few liberties away, not the important ones just the little ones. It's for your own good. Its to protect your family from Islamic extremists" Then "Hey we know were asking for more now but the terrorists have caught on to our old tactics so we need to change up a little to stay a step ahead. Just give us the authority were asking for we will keep your family safe from the Islamic Radicals who want to kill Americans. Trust us." Then "Hey we know we're asking Americans to make some sacrifices here but we wont use this power for anything but to help to protect Americans from Islamic Radicals who want to do us harm." Then "Due to the significant threat that our intelligence sources have gathered we feel that the threat to the American people is so great the we must institute a Martial Law mandate effective immediatly. We have been granted this authority by the congress in the Patriot Act 1, Patriot Act 2 and the Emergency Provisional Patriot Act. Due to the significant threat we feel that the fall elections need to be postponed until the emminant danger were facing has passed. SUCKERS"
How's that sound to ya. Just about exactly what happened in the Soviet Union and Germany huh.
Now lets get to the real meat. The neocons have been preaching for 5 years now that the 9-11 attacks were an attck on our freedom. That Osama wanted to destroy our democratic way of life. That the extremists hated us because we were free and they were afraid that freedom would spread to their part of the world. So explain to me how giving up liberties to protect us is not doing exactly what Osama wanted us to. We would be giving him exactly what he wants, to destroy the basic liberties that protect the freedom we love and stand for. I dont know about you but i would rather be dead than live in a country without the freedoms that i have grown up with. Thats what makes America the GREATEST COUNTRY IN HISTORY !!!!! Why did we send all these kids to Afghanistan and Iraq to die ! The neocons say its to protect our freedoms and way of life. They say there fighting to keep us free! So what do you want to do, give up our liberties. What are fighting for then ? Lets just go ahead and issue Martial Law so we know where safe. Thats solves it all huh. We can just close the borders, make everyone have a travel pass to leave their homes so we know whos where and when. We can halt all commercial flights unless prescreened and approved by the Dept of Defense. And we can all just stick our heads in the sand and be safe. Hows that sound to ya?

Try this, how about we stop buying oil from the people who are trying to kill us. That might work. Considering without the oil revenue the terrorists become a bunch of camel jockies looking for the next oasis, Without the money we give them they are helpless. This country could be petroleum free on the consumer end in 10 years and the petroleum we would need for rest could be gotten from our sources and Canada. With the industrial boom these new technologies create and the ability to be non dependent on foriegn oil, the rest of the world would have to follow our lead.
Part 2
Remove permanent military bases from ALL Islamic coutries. This is what started the whole "KILL AMERICANS" thing. We have no reason to be there except our oil interests. So if we become oil independent we dont have to worry about it.


PLEASE RESPOND

Answer 5

Do you realize that your forty hour, five day work week came about because a lot of Conservitive and liberals died at the hands of a government who thought it didn't have to work for the people? Your reasoning that americans give in is in support of a government who has always felt it was better than you. How does it feel to know you are being punked?

Answer 6

Yes, and throughout history there have been threats to our survival.

But if you had the choice between giving up liberties in accordance with established laws, and having your liberties taken away in violation of those laws, doesn't the rule of law mean anything?

Especially when the legal methods are just as effective as the illegal ones. What possible justification is the for breaking the law, when you could do the exact same types of things legally?

Answer 7

Give up your liberties and you put the shackles on your own wrists. "Crises" are always enticing opportunities to facists and neocons alike to strip hard fought freedoms from the common citizen. Especially crises which are self-created such as Iraq.
If you want to start having segments of society surrender liberties, try getting the white house to come clean and remove the veil of suspect secrecy they have operated under since they usurped the popularly elected President and installed themselves in power.

Answer 8

Heres my rebuttal: "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-Benjamin Franklin.

I trust foudning fathers more then today's politicains.. Oh and by the way im not a liberal. Im a libertarian.

Answer 9

ok shall we first start up with that Marriage Is bending, in accordance to societial differences. in case you will honor Traditions set forth with the help of Scripture and ranging components polygamy is okay yet you is probably not pleased with that even with the reality that it fairly is recurrent for the time of many cultures. additionally enable us to set down Cultures that settle for gay marriages a million.interior of reach individuals with their Berdache. 2.West African widows with rather some money and a bussiness might marry a woman 3.The Azande of Sudan 4.the Brazilian acceptance of Masculine/effeminate Love alongside transexuality AND enable us to not forget approximately homosexuality is apparant in Sumerian Depictions of Courtesans, and In greecian subculture,And Papua New guinea particular tribes abhor heterosexual family different than for replica. So take your usurped "traditions" and shove it up your *** you insufferable prick.

Answer 10

I think you are full of it. I will not willingly give up any of my freedoms To do so plays right into the hands of the extremists we are supposedly fighting against