How can we close the socio-economic gap that exists between the rich and the poor in this country?

Question

Would it be right to base a payroll deduction based upon the difference between the highest paid individual and the lowest paid individual at any and every particular place of employment?

Answer 1

the answers that have been given show the high state of ignorance of reality

part of it is a willful ignorance generated by the wish to justify limitless wealth

those who are well off are naturally going to readily accept any argument that seems to justify the great range of hourly pay

and all too often, the lower paid seem to buy these rationalisations

partly because the poor imagine themselves in the rich man's shoes, and therefore wanting there to be arguments to justify their position when/if they get rich

the greed of the poor supports the greed of the rich

by greed, i mean, wanting to be overpaid for one's work - ie wanting to get out more than you put in by your work

'no right to steal from one to give to another' - but what if the first has stolen from the second?

overpay goes up to $15 million an hour [2006 dollars] - can this person have put in to the social pool of wealth US$15 million in one hour of his work?

the argument that a person's worth is what the market will pay him is false - because part of market value is payment for scarcity, which is not the person's work - eg, new technology is a situation where demand is high and supply is low - demand is high because everyone wants one, and supply is low because the industry is new, the factories just starting up - hence prices that go way above work input into the products [ie, costs] - after labour has been paid market price, and the owners have been paid for their work input, and every other work input has been paid for [advertising, accounting, transport, packaging, warehousing, etc etc], the company is aswamp with dollars, just because of the built-in scarcity of the new product -

the scarcity does not belong to the company owners, it is a social phenomenon - it is produced by the demand and the supply - there is no reason the owners should receive this money - it is merely a flaw in the economic system - a legal theft

with capital of US$5 million, bill gates went to $50 billion in 30 years - an average annual personal profit rate of 36% - ie, 36/136ths or 1/4 of the price went to bill gates in return for nothing - his work was paid for by his salary - and there are other microsoft millionaires/ billionaires, who might have taken an 1/8th, a 1/20th, and so on, beyond their salaries which overpaid them for their time and hard work - money for nothing, ie, theft, legal, but theft, ie, unearned by them, other-earned

with that money they buy goods, created by work - money they got without working, gives them products of people's work - thus that money does not go to the people who did the work that made the products the billionaires buy - the billionaires get money for nothing, and thus get products for nothing - products which cannot exist without people doing work - for the billionaires to be gifted these products, the workers have to be not paid for the work in making them - ie overpay means underpay

all the money stands for all the products - money for nothing is work for nothing - the billionaires get people's work for nothing - the people have to get nothing for their work, ie, the people get paid for only some of their work

so the argument that it is not right to steal from the overpaid to give to the underpaid is false

as for the amount of work people, including billionaires, do: the maximum number of hours of work in a lifetime is around 50 hours x 50 weeks x 50 years - 125,000 -

at world average hourly pay of US$15 [2006 dollars - paying students and homemakers too, which we should do, for they work, and the purpose of govt is peace through justice, and justice is pay for work, and no pay for no work], that is US$1.75 million - subtract a lifetime's miniumum spending, say US$15,000 a year, leaves a maximum earnable fortune of just US$1 million

if you want to argue that someone can work an average of 70 hours a week over a whole lifetime, we can add 40% to the 1.75 million

but it is clear that the maximum self-earnable fortune is far below the other-earned fortunes we have

all the arguments for higher than average hourly pay, like responsibility, business risk, talents, natural gifts, brains, etc turn out to be false - illogical, irrational, invalid
[see my other answers for the details here]

and if you pay students for study [which we should and can do] there is no argument for higher pay for qualifications - what we do is not pay students for their work studying, and then allow unlimited hourly rates thereafter - but after the work for study has been paid, there is no justification for any paying more for qualifications

the state built on injustice cannot stand - the sense of injustice generates hatred, unrest, disturbance, violence, etc

responsible people aim for justice - unfortunately, most people are biassed, and cannot come to justice - neither the overpaid nor most of the underpaid - the overpaid because they want to justify what they have, the underpaid because they imagine themselves rich and wanting to be in a position to justify overpay

so there is very little unbiassed, unprejudiced thought possible to generate a knowledge of justice - greed, love of overpay, love of stealing, love of getting out more work than you put in, is too general to generate justice, and therefore to generate peace and happiness and survival of states - everyone betrays the state, betrays their own happiness by being too biassed to grasp justice - to grasp that there are legal thefts/ injustices in the system

but the injustice is felt when it becomes obvious - people working hard and being very much poorer than others - and generates violence, which destroys the state - every empire to date has failed to achieve justice, and so has collapsed on everyone

the only way to close the gap is to get the unbias to see where justice lies - the fact that you wish to close the gap shows that you believe the gap to be unjust - but can you achieve the unbias to accept any idea of justice that is close enough to justice to prevent unrest generated by injustice?

the amazing thing is that with justice, 99% would be higher paid - but the majority understanding is stil on the side of injustice, ie, 'freedom' to have unlimited riches - although america was founded on limited, ie just, fortunes

most people still are hopeful of profiting from injustice in pay, and yet 99% are lower paid with injustice, and the violence is ruining the happiness of everyone, of 100% - the more overpaid, the more in danger from the righteous anger of the underpaid - all plutocracies have been destroyed - all plunderers have been plundered - the plunder is limited, the defense costs of the plunderers are endless, as the plundered never give up

all the dead empires have plundered and been plundered - america has plundered and is being plundered, the defense costs are crippling, have eaten all the plunder - america will stop having defense costs when it stops having others' earnings

there just isnt the maturity, the sense, to pursue justice - humanity is only at the level of: oh look, i can get my hands on... - it is blind to the connection between plunder and being plundered, although the fall of every empire illustrates it

anyone who can see the range of pay, from US$1 billion, to US$1, from a million times average, to 1000th of average, and argue that taking from the rich is stealing, is way too prejudiced to achieve justice [[peace, survival, happiness]

to argue that we mustnt use force to take from the overpaid, is saying that we mustnt use force to take from thieves - to talk of the freedom to be rich, is to talk of the freedom to be thieves, to injure others by stealing - freedom always stops short of injuring others, which is loss of freedom for others - freedom must be shared, like products of work, like pay for work

there are just too many people whose minds can go no further than: more for me, more for me - limitless freedom, limitless pay for me - this cannot be called selfish, since it is selfdestructive - its fruits are not limitless freedom, limitless wealth, but violence, disturbance, enmity, danger, trouble, unsafety, insecurity

as toynbee said: we were a lot safer when we were defenceless against the tiger than we are now - about a 1000 times safer

so strong is the passion of avarice that the lesson of history has not yet been learned, as obvious as it is: - stealing causes rage, causes damage, causes violence, is selfdestructive, is not a strategy for happiness -

love of selfearned money is fine, no one is hurt by you working harder, producing more and consuming all you produce

love of other-earned money is the root of all our troubles

the ignoring of justice is the ignoring of peace, happiness, pleasure, freedom - the overpaid are imprisoned by their security problems - the more stolen, the more the security problem steals their lives, eats their time, eats the freedom of the mind to relax and enjoy - like a person who steals all the property of the tribe, and then is forced to live alone, in hiding from the wrath of the tribe - in danger when he could be safe, in enmity when he could be chummy, in isolation when he could be in company of his peers

and now we are too close to extinction for us to learn the positive value of justice, of moderation in pay - millenia of growing injustice, millenia of growth of war and weaponry are about to bear fruit in universal death - humanity in all that time, never was made thoughtful by the horrors and sufferins of war, was never disenchanted with limitless wealth

how obvious is it that bill gates has not earned US$500,000 an hour every hour of his working life? - and yet the general opinion, propped up by greed, by love of overpay, is that the billions he has belong to him -

with US$500,000 he buys US$500,000 worth of goods - the product of about 50,000 hours of work - and yet the human mind has no notion that there is legal theft here

give 100 people the tools and materials and knowledge to make the things he buys with US$500,000 and bill gates will not make any more than anyone else - everyone knows this, but no one knows that therefore something is wrong in bill gates doing an hours' work and getting US$500,000

the synapse for people to get this just doesnt exist - consequently we are almost 100% certainly all going to die in nuclear winter in the next 50 years, starting now

indeed, our obsession with overpay is fantastic - our devotion, our blindness, is supreme -

we could all be on US$15 an hour, including homemakers and students - every family in the world on US$75,000 a year for working average hard - far fewer diseases, far less ignorance, far far less violence [war and crime], far more friendliness, far more order and quietness, far more safety, far more capitalism and scientists and businesses and inventors and entrepreneurs, far more stable markets - but we just arent brainy enough - although we are brainy - althoug it is easy to understand - but that particular thought just can not or will not get through our heads

1% get 90% of world income - and we cannot see injustice, theft, danger, a cause of war - whoever mae us this stupid has done a brilliant job! - to make us so brainy and yet still so stupid about justice - so devoted, committed to injustice

making all these excuses for higher than average hourly pay - responsibility, business risk, fiscal discipline, education, freedom, hard work, talent, natural gifts, brains - and reaping giant war, giant misery, global death - without flinching, without doubting, without hesitation, without learning, without checking our assumptions, going back through our calculations, submitting ourselves to the discipline of objectivity, impartiality, dispassion, common sense, unprejudice, unbias, cool scientific mind!

how the gods must be laughing at our antics! - what a comedy we must be for them - it must be terrific fun being a god, and making funny creatures that do such funny funny things - the gods, who enjoy rationality, must be highly amused at what happens when you make a creature without rationality - or with rationality but with a little poison drop of madness, of nonthink, of blind avarice

but the game draws to an end - the gods will either relent and give us the antidote to the poison that makes us blind to the enormous value of justice, or they will watch us blindly extinguish ourselves, and go back to their game of billiards or whatever they were doing before we came along to amuse them

observe yourself, reader - will you be able to muster the consciousness to take these words to heart, to see, to be amazed, to awake, to be startled, or will also these words fail to plant a fruitful seed in your mind?

Answer 2

The social-economic gap always exists since the creations of money. Who ever got the most resources will always maintain as it is but it may not last forever because after 3 generations down the line, their descendant may misuse this wealth that the ancestors build. Not really proven but happen most of the time.

Ok, let’s get back to the question economically. The wealth distribution has been always unfair towards the people in the nations. The rich are typically growing faster as their resources are more and the economic impact on them will be far lesser if they invested well enough. Their vast connection and network does help them to establish a great deal of wealth. While the middle class people are always like scholar who act and think like an employee. Dare not to take any risks at all. As you know, the more people are educated, the more they access risk because everything seems to be a gamble since their resources are small. For the poor are two choices only…either the work like a dog cause without any proper education or doing dirty jobs which consisted lots of matter from good to bad.

As for as I know, there was only one way which manage to pull the gap close..guess what? Communism did manage to do quite a good job in managing the wealth of the people and distributing the right amount of services and goods in order to balance off this social gap. How come it did not manage to last? This is because the central planning of the communist country is not powerful enough and corruption begins to erupt as the official officer became greedy. The people begin to revolt as there is no freedom and drastic changes of the environment have eventually causes people to lose faith on communism.

Money can grow in one way and not another. Those who eventually became rich are always the risk taker and does who fall before or being knock before countless of times. However, they manage to sustain and build up their empire from their ignorance. Even educated people may not attempt do to such thing, how can they reach the level of income or even close to the rich gaps. Educational level somehow seems to be obstructing people from building their dreams some times. They will always work for the bosses. Only if they important enough, the directors may give them company share, however, how many people did achieve it…out of so many executives, manager and higher ranking people. Some might say, be your own entrepreneur and get out of the box…This seems to be good way of balancing although not many people manage to succeed however it does hold a bit of chance better then nothing.

This simple aspect is challenge; people need to be competitive enough to determine what are their wants and needs. People make wealth is not how or what the government can do.

Answer 3

In each place of employment, you could have the employees decide democratically how much each level of people should get paid. If they decide they'd rather have a smaller gap between the richest and poorest, then you'll close the gap. If they decide to pay someone a lot more than everyone else, then there will be a lot less complaining about this, because they're the ones that decided it.

The current pay determination in most places of employment is done in an authoritarian manner, so it's not surprising those at the top will vote to pay themselves more, no matter how hard those under them worked.

Answer 4

The only way that the disparity between the poor and the rich could ever end is that one day magically, all of the rich people in the world decided that they don't want to have more money than the rest, and consequently, divide the fortunes among everyone else.

That would mean for example, paying someone 40 or 50 dollars an hour rather than minimum wage. As you can see, it is something that will never happen due to the overall greediness of humans, and the poor shall remain poor, and the rich will get richer.

Answer 5

Economic inequality has always existed, there are many reasons for economic inequality within societies. These causes are often inter-related, non-linear, and complex. Among the acknowledged factors that impact economic inequality in some part are the labour market, innate ability, education, race, gender, culture, wealth condensation, and development patterns.
Inequality is caused by the differences in the supply and demand for different types of work in the labour market
One important factor in the creation of inequality is the variable ability of individuals to get an education. The rich get the best quality of education especially in the urban areas, where the poor could not afford to go for such quality of education even in these areas forget about the rural areas, so here it creates an socio-economic gap.

Answer 6

It seems you assume that rich people don't deserve what they have.

Yes, some people are just lucky (daddy is rich), but it's not the majority and well, daddy might have work quite hard to become rich.

Communism was, to certain extent, about closing the gap between rich and poor. As we know now, it wasn't such a success... everybody became poor.

Income tax already varies depending on your income (28 to 36%).
Also, in some countries the percentage is larger and yes, the income gap tends to be smaller in countries having larger income taxes but still there is quite a large gap and there are very rich and very poor people in these countries as well.

Hard work, creativity, risks, etc. have value, if the gov't take all the difference then what will get you going?

The biggest problem with taxes and closing the gap, is that it is forced upon people. Your freedom is being stripped out and your hard work is being ignored.

Answer 7

There are only two ways, inflation and unionism. Payroll deductions are not going to help, since most of the wealthy derive their wealth from sources other than wages and salaries. Even the employed wealthy (such as CEOs of large companies) derive the bulk of their compensation from stock options and stock grants; Bill Gates, for example, receives a salary of mere $100,000 a year. The proverbial trust fund babies mainly live off interest, property income, and capital gains...

You could make a case for a wealth tax, but its implementation is going to be a nightmare.

A slightly more promising avenue is identifying the root cause of increasing wealth inequality and attacking it, rather than the inequality itself. But this is still emerging science; there are a lot of unanswered questions...

Answer 8

Economics 101 ..... Rich will get richer and the middle class won't catch up because most middle class people can't manage what little money they have. They typically live beyond their means. Obtaining wealth requires fiscal discipline. You must learn to invest money and make it work for you... instead of you working for your money and spending it faster than you make it. An example of this are the people who win big lottery jackpots or the average person who makes it big in sports or the music biz and within a short period of time they are broke again. They blow the money and live beyond their means. And the truly poor in our midst will always have a tough time as most don't have the education or ability needed to earn a decent living and then there are those of us who choose poverty over consumption. Extra taxes will not alleviate this gap. "Rob from the rich and give to the poor " only works in fairy tales. Education hard work and fiscal responsibility is the only way to long term wealth or sometimes just plain dumb luck can do it.

Answer 9

I agree with lowrider. In a sense distributive economy may be nice but is it the solution. Many rich people worked hard to get where they are. Yes there is a very small percentage that inherit money, but most worked very hard to get where their at right now so why take it away from them and give to people who sit on their asses and smoke weed all day. Yes their are disabled people who cant go to school or work but the rest of them decide to live their lives like that by choice. Doctors got to school for 8 years after high school all that hard work deserves and decent pay check dont you think.

Answer 10

You could make everyone poor by trying to "fix" it.

People are so stuck on "inequality" even though the income of the lower and middle class are rising.

The average "poor" person in the United States lives in a double-wide trailer, drives a 15-yr old automobile, and complains that they can't upgrade from basic cable.

If you were to randomly select a "middle class" citizen of earth, they would be living on $1/day.

Answer 11

No one is going to answer that here, but a good place to start would be cutting up your credit cards. As long as we continue to buy things we can't afford and we don't save money we will be poor.

I think we should do away with income tax and have a national sales tax. Then the people who spend the most money would pay the most taxes.