Could this be the way to end terrorism against the U.S.!?

Question

I started reading the Koran recently to try and figure out what shapes Muslim psychology.

The Koran, Chapter 4:
{If they withdraw from you, and do not fight you, and offer you peace, then God assigns not any way to you against them.}

That means if we stop Western imperialism against Muslims in their lands, then Allah does not authorize them to strike us in any way! This may be why Bin Laden (a Saudi) hasn't attacked the U.S. again. One of Bin Laden's demands was U.S. withdrawal from Saudi Arabia. President Bush withdrew the U.S. from Saudi Arabia in April 2003, one month after he invaded Iraq.

Source: The Koran Interpreted by A.J. Arberry (Head of the Department of Classics at Cairo University).
Comparable inerent source to see for yourself: http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=DIV0&byte=114839 Chapter 4.90

Scarlett brings up a point that is the source of my greatest resentment toward religions that purport to be ultimate in authority-- the ethical contradictions. I read the passage she referenced in my source, "The Koran Interpreted", over and over looking for any way out of the contradiction but I couldn't discover it. We see now why the seemingly immoral Zarqawis and Bin Ladens of the world need their personal imams to help ensure they are doing God's will. Even they are torn between good and evil and can't resolve the contradictions!
The supposition that later verses abrogate earlier verses means finding a later verse could abrogate Repentence 9:4.
Perhaps Ornaments 88-89 could do the trick; {And for his saying, 'My Lord, surely these are a people who believe not'-- yet pardon them, and say, 'Peace!' Soon they will know.}

Answer 1

Great question. A true humanitarian. I recently purchased a conversion English-Arabic with interest and it seems your question has merit based on cause and affect. Chapter 2 Verse 179 has something interesting on equitable retribution that seems to provide cause for terrorist intent. It appears that depending on the interpreter, the affect is warranted. If they perceive a wrong action (from the US for example) then they appear to be justified according to the Qur'an. Very scary!

Answer 2

The later verses abrogate (cancel out) the earlier ones. The earlier verses are the more peaceful and conciliatory ones. The later ones are far more belligerent and were written when Mohamed had gained much more military power. Here is a later one.

Repentance. 9:4 Proclaim a woeful punishment to the
unbelievers, except those idolaters who have honored their
treaties with you and aided none against you. With these keep
faith until their treaties have run their term. Allah loves the
righteous. When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters
wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in
ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer
and pay the alms-tax, let them go their way.

They only have to leave the idolaters alone UNTIL THEIR TREATY RUNS OUT.

They have to leave the unbelievers alone IF THEY REPENT AND PAY A TAX.

Instead of paying them cash for their oil we should have just given them glass beads and little trinkets.
The best thing to do is to buy a copy of the Koran (paperback is less than $20 at Borders or on amazon.com), you will find LT Jaguar's quote in there. I have read them in there myself. I am not sure of the numbering, don't have time to check it now. Sometimes the wording is slightly different from one translation to the next. You can also get the Koran on CD and search for key words. Don't be dependant on the quotes of others.

Okay I founfd it after all. Some of TLJaguars quotes are from Surah 8: The Spoils of War (008.002 - 008.003...etc...)

Steve's quote is from Surah 4: The Women (004.008.3 or 4.8.3 or just 4.8)

Note all versions do not use the same format for the numbering, some use zeros, some don't)

Answer 3

You're assumption that this war is an example of American imperialism is wrong. This crusade like others before it is a response to Islamic imperialism. Jihadism has been attacking the modern western world with ever greater frequency and ferocity since the 70's. Fortunately under Bush's leadership the west is finally striking back. If we withdraw and offfer peace they will only advance their cause and influence.

Bin Laden doesn't attack us not because we withdrew some soldiers from Saudi Arabia. He hasn't attacked us because he's too busy running and hiding from us. He is still trying to co-ordinate attacks from his bat cave. The videos he has released regularly attest to that.

Of course it is also possible that we're both right. This could be a struggle between American and Islamic imperialism. If that is the case I would still give Bush my whole hearted support because I would rather live in an American Empire than a Muslim one.

Answer 4

You raise a very nice point. Bin Laden's statements about U.S. troops being stationed on holy lands were almost entirely ignored by the media - perhaps because it just wasn't as catchy as "they hate our freedom."

But remember, prior the invasion of Iraq, Bin Laden was a hated man in the majority of Islamic nations. Most Muslims viewed him in much the same way that most Christians view the KKK. So I wouldn't trust his eagerness to follow any rational interpretation of the Qur'an.


*****

By the way, the quotes from TLJaguar (above) are not correct. I just checked several, and all were wrong. In fact, Sura 4 ("women"), aya 8 (or 4:8 in the notation above) actually says "If other relatives or orphans or needy people are present at the distribution too, give them something and speak kindly to them."

There certainly is some brutal stuff in that book, as there is in the Bible, but the quotes above are wrong.

Answer 5

I know that to a civilized mind, this would seem sensible. I'm an American, and have lived in the Philippines for a long long time now. I have come to understand the Muslim psychi. From having Muslims work in our businesses, and from hearing true stories over years and years.

Muslims do not think like us. Nor do they think like civilized people. There are a number of them that are civilized, but in their blood, there is a savage just waiting to break free.

In my opinion, you have been intimidated into believeing that Islam is actually a respectable religion that have firm, intelligent, peace-loving followers that just want to be respected and just want to follow their God. That's not the case.

Islam used to dominate the world. That's how is was. There's nothing more they want than to get back their glory days of total world influence and domination. They aren't 'holy' people. In no sense of the word are they.

It's impossible to find a way around the bush, with Musilms. It's impossible to try to deal with them with the way that you think, as a fully-civilized person.

You can't try to 'understand' them. And please don't think that if they feel 'accepted' or 'understood', things will change! It's not like they feel rejected or unloved or anything like that. They are an arrogant race that simply want to dominate the world system.

Answer 6

That would be a big mistake. Because you confuse people hidiing behind a religion to commit immoral acts with religious people.

Another way equally as effective to end terrorism against us is to all convert to Islam and accept Bin Laden as our ruler.

But the only sure fire way would be to simply commit mass suicide. If we were all dead I'm sure after they get tired of dragging our dead bodies around the streets, they would finally leave us alone. And start killing each other just as their doing in Iraq.

Answer 7

Well done for this question. The only way to avoid bigotry and fear is to educate oneself. Please read the post I did on Iran V KSA only today, and that backs up your point succintly. Left alone the likes of IRAN have no truck with the USA. They have a right to object in any way they see fit when we try to dictate to them how their lives should be lived. Just like we will if an external source tried the same thing. Once again well done. All we have to do now is educate the rest of America.

Answer 8

ideogenetic
Level 3

Wow, delta gurl...I've always wondered why President Bush stays, too!

I can't figure out why President Bush doesn't leave, rather than trying to rewrite the Constitution, destroy the civil liberties our forefathers fought and died for, and wreck the notion of government by the People-- for the People. If President Bush likes being a deceitful, despicable despot so much, the United States is the wrong place for him to be! This is a nation of laws, not of republican (little 'r') despotism.
He should be impeached for crimes against the American people and the world!

STOP THE PRESSES!
{And I believe we shouldn't judge others...that's what you believe that's what they believe...Love them as they are and get over it...this is the stuff of many wars...e.g. Islamic Jihad}

It's tough to practice what you preach, eh?
;)

Conservative jihad, too!

28 minutes ago

Tu Che' I just needed the 2 points points!!!
Thanks!!!

Answer 9

Offering peace to Muslims means converting

This is a little of what Ive found in the Koran..
(2:12) "Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers."
(4:6)"Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars"
(4:8,9) "Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. If the unbelievers do not offer you peace (that means surrender), kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant."
(5:3)"Those who make war with Allah and his messenger (that meansd resisting Islam) will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. That is how they will be treated in this world, and in the next they will have an awful doom. "
(5:6,7)"Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, and tooth for tooth. Non-muslims are wrong doers. Christians will be burned in the Fire"
(7:9)"Those who deny Muhammad's revelation are evil"
(8:3)"When you fight with disbelievers, do not retreat. Those who do will go to hell"
(8:7-9)"The worst beasts in Allah's sight are the disbelievers. Exhort the believers to fight. They will win easily, because disbelievers are without intelligence. A prophet may not take captives until he has made a slaughter in the land"
(9:2) "Slay the idolaters wherever you find them"
(9:5) "If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom"
(9:10) "Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway."
(9:13,14) "Don't pray for idolaters (not even for your family) after it is clear they are people of hell-fire. Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you."

Answer 10

No. What you should do is have a house party, and invite as many Al Qaeda killers as possible. Let's try being friends with them.