Which rule would this fall under?

Question

This happend last night in the Seattle - Boston game last night and I could not locate the rule on MLB.com.
Runners on first and second with one out. A ground ball is hit to the shortstop. The runner on second stays on the bag. The shortstop picks up the ball, steps on second and tags the runner going from first to second. That runner is out as a result of a force. The runner originally on second is still standing on second and is tagged by the shortstop, who still has the ball. This runner was called out. Why? The force by the runner from first was removed by stepping on second base.

I do not want your opinion of the teams, I do not care. Just if someone knows the rule, please.

To What? The reply showed the runner on second was not tagged until AFTER the runner from first was tagged. Otherwise I would not be questioning this.

Answer 1

I think they made a mistake. the runner on second should be safe still if he didnt advance, as long as the guy from first didnt reach second and touch the bag before he was tagged out.

Answer 2

They made the right call. If there is a runner on First and Second, all runners must move up and are either out by tag-out or a throw to the base that their running too. The runner on Second had to run to Third and if he does not he can be tagged out. The only way he will be safe on second is if there was no runner on First. If the runner on second ran to third and everything went normally, it would have been a 6-5-4 force out at Third and Second.

Answer 3

In order to take advantage of the force, the play would've been to throw it to third and force the lead runner. But what he did was turn a very smart double play. He forced the runner from first at the bag at second, and that automatically eliminated the force at third. So, naturally he had to tag the runner still standing at second. If the runner didn't leave the bag and was still standing on the bag, then he was called out anyway because you have to run, you can't just stand there because otherwise you could be called for BASERUNNING INTEREFENCE.

Smart play on the shortstop, though.

Answer 4

The call on the field is actually incorrect. This is of course going by your description, and I provide an alternative below.

The proper call in this situation given the order of the tags, there should only be one out. I'm sure the umpire is being told this today.

Second Base, First to Second runner, man on second.

Let's go through it. The fielder by touching second base automatically puts the runner from first to second out. Not sure why he tagged him as it's not neccessary. Since the touching of the bag was done first, there no longer is a force play for the second base.

This concept is similar to throwing to first and then needing to "tag" the runner from first to second. This is because the base is unoccupied.

As such, tagging the player while still on the base should not have resulted in an out.

However, it is possible that the player was tagged BEFORE the fielder touched second. Even though he's still on the bag, it is no longer a valid safe point as per the MLB force rules.

So, if the order was tag man on second, touch second base, that would be a double play.

Answer 5

I didn't see the play--sounds like a bad call though.

If the fielder tagged the runner standing on second before he (the fielder) touched second base, it would be a double play--the runner on second is forced off the base, so he isn't safe for staying, then tagging the base would be the second out.

The way you described it, he put the same runner out twice--stepping on second without making the tag on the runner there, (putting the runner on first out), and then tagging the runner on first, putting him out again. Turning around and tagging the runner on second should have no effect. The only way it would matter is as an appeal to the umpire to make a decision on that runner as well--he couldn't have put him out with that tag.

I am aware of a rule that immediately puts a batter-runner out for running backward to home plate (rather than into a tag on the first base line), but I don't think the runner standing on second should be out unless he was tagged.

Answer 6

The runner on second was tagged out because he did not advance when the ball was hit... he doesn't nessessisarily have to advance but if the runners from previous bags advance so must he. It's the you can't have two runners on the same bag rule... even though the force was taken away he made no effort to leave the bag. If I remember correctly.. (and it's been a long time since reading the rules) you have to make the effort to leave the bag, and if the force happened then you can return to the bag (say if you were caught in a pickle) but the advance must take place. If I find the rule I'll try and post it.... but I've actually had that happen before...

Answer 7

By rule, if the runner on second does not try to advance on the play, all the fileder must do is step on the bag occupied by the player who was forced to run to get that runner out. The shortstop did not have to tag the runner coming from first base to get him out, however he would have had to step off the bag and step on it again to get the runner being forced from first out.

Answer 8

i am not certain, but i think its also force.
the runner that was on second technically should have had to run because the runner on first was forced to run because it was a base hit and the runner must run regardless of the fact the he was out due to the base being tagged.
the base hit resulted in the double play regarless of the runners on base not running but being tagged.
i hope this makes sense.

Answer 9

The runner on second must try to advance if there is a runner on first.

Answer 10

runner on first and second base the batter hits a grounder all runners move up a base if they get tagged out or don't get to the next base before the fielder touches the plate their out