Why do people say the USA is the land of opportunity when the facts show that it is not?

Question

Inter-generational social mobility is actually lower there compared to all of the following countries: UK, (West) Germany, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Canada.

See: http://cep.lse.ac.uk/about/news/IntergenerationalMobility.pdf

Do you dispute these facts? Do you dispute the measurement techniques? Are there other statistics you think are better measure of inter-generational social mobility?

It is a genuine question, please try to avoid ranting....

Many respondents have said "I don't believe it" in one way or another.

Fathead points out problems he thinks there with the impartiality/quality of the report.

But Professor Robin Naylor at the University of Warwick reported on a paper at the Royal Economic Society’s Annual Conference at the University of Nottingham, 18-20 April 2006 (called "Non-linearities in Intergenerational Earnings Mobility: Consequences for Cross-country Comparisons") which compared the USA with Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Finland. He says:

"Despite the commonly-perceived view of the US as an ‘open’ society with ready
opportunities for individuals to rise from poverty to affluence (from ‘rags to
riches’), the evidence shows that the opposite is true. On average, a son’s
earnings are more closely related to his father’s earnings in the United States
than in any of the other countries."

http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/economics/res/media2006/naylor%20et%20al.pdf

Anybody still disagree?

Answer 1

fake country

Answer 2

What a shock... that economic classes are fairly 'static' in a capitalistic society. And the numbers who play lottery...

Statistics are more dangerous than politicians trying to think or MAKING a DECISION... AND if not aware of that look into poor
pools a and sampling... you know the science mathy thingy.

Remember mobility can go up and down AND still be mobility.

Majority of humans go no further than one mile from the spot of their birth.

The industrial revolution was fueled(ugh the pun) by oil...

the nuclear revolution has been deferred for whatever reason.

Standard of living statistics useful as well...

Since man's existence some take, some make, MOST get taken!

Pie in the sky by and by?

Interesting that human growth cycle resembles bacteria...

And your thoughts... email as I'm interested in the reason for the question!

Best measure is how many loaves of bread you can purchase with an hour's wage...

Answer 3

The inter-generational social mobility is not a way to say that a country is or is not, in this century, the land of opportunity.
I think that LO was a kind of slogan to attire people to a new or developing country.
The countries you mention as LO are mostly opened for Europeans and even UK is about to change.
Another question is: LO can be or not discriminatory?
The USA, or Canada, or Australia or UK may be the LO for scientists, artists, mathematicians, etc. But not for everyone.

Answer 4

First off... The sponors of this "report", the Sutton Trust, is a left-leaning organization thereby casting doubt on any conclusions drawn from the report.

Instead of measuring groups over long periods of time, the methodology was to examine cohorts of particular socia-economic groups over short periods and compare these with numbers from an earlier generation. Given the high rates of immigration and the intrinsically lower social program levels of the US compared to the nordics, the results will naturally be skewed. A more valid approach would be a long-term study following cohorts through their economic development path.

Further the conclusions of the report were in regard to EDUCATIONAL opportunity, not ECONOMIC opportunity. These are clearly not the same. The fact that the rich were better able to advance their children and take advantage of more educational programs is hardly surprising. A valid measure of economic opportunity would be far more compelling.

Even if I accepted the methodology, by their own admission their sample sizes were too small. Lack of statistical significance is hardly persuasive. The report itself is faulty in both process and conclusion. Your application to the realm of economic opportunity is invalid.

My only conclusion from their report is that a better study is needed to measure true economic mobility of various social-economic groups.

Answer 5

Seems consistent with most studies I've read. As a Finnish citizen I always look forward to arguments why in fact the study is skewed and that in fact USA is still better.
Social Mobility has always been so great in the Nordic Countries because that even the higher education is free, and you receive support so you can actually go through no matter how poor you are. And Canada has always been a kindred soul to the Nordic Countries.
Of course, USA could easily implement a similiar model if it wished.

If you live too south, it rots your brain ('s'true! :D)

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Oooh! In Finland you are paid for opening your Asiana restaurant! Please do! Finns are naturally un-enterprising, and small, bussinesses are helped along their path. :)

Answer 6

Everyone of those countries have also put in infrastructure to make them also lands of opportunity. The 3rd World has not. Most of the people that say the US is the land of opportunity are look from out side of the 1st World. They also think they US has streets of gold. Many from those areas have the drive to make it here once they get here. They don't feel entitled. Many here feel or have been taught they are entitled.

Don't worry, if we don't decide to change the economics of renewable energy the question will be mute.

Answer 7

For the 1/2 of the World population that lives in abject poverty, USA might look better than subsistence farming.

But to 1/2 of America the poor simple life of subsistence farming looks better than living with no hope and a dim future.

Go big Red Go

Answer 8

I am an Asian been to Canada and Europe... WHY do I still believe that I would do much better in a US city than anywhere else in the world if I were to open my specialty Asiana Restaurant?

Am I wrong in my beliefs that America's...
1. diverse mix of affluent people
2. generous, non-discriminatory, adventurous
3. better business climate
4. population density...
would all provide me with a more feasible environment for my restaurant business?

I believe the USA is still an unique Land of Opportunity for anyone who knows how to contribute positively to American society - this should be priority... not just making more Benjamins.

Answer 9

Every country has its cultural myths. The USA is no different. The land of opportunity, democracy and equality where you need to be rich to stand for almost any public office. Class status is actually more of a barrier to economic and social advancement in the USA than in any other country in the Western industrialised world.

Answer 10

People don't really call it that any more.

At the beginning of the 20th Centuary, before the depression, America WAS the land of opportunity with a massive booming economdy. People from all over Europe went over to make the most of that - which is why you have large Italian and Irish communities (Or descendents thereof) over there.

Answer 11

Why do you think intergenerational social mobility is a good enough measure of opportunity to draw a conclusion?