Marx said capitalism wasbased on exploiting workers,but isn't it based on exploiting all economicstakeholders?

Question

The Q fitting the Q-box is the abbreviated headline Q. Here is the fully worded Q as I wanted to ask it: Marx said capitalism was based on exploiting the workers,but isn't it based on exploiting all the disadvantaged economic stakeholders including but not limited to the workers,customers,suppliers,communities and even fellow capitalists when they are in a distressed or disadvantaged state or happen to be experiencing unfortunately adverse business or political conditions. TWH 08162006

In case you are tempted to think I am a Marxist, please be disavowed of that belief immediately and do not project your dislikes on me. All I do is ask Q's that elicit truths from the lies and ignorance of so many who idealize how capitalism works for the good while they ignore its ugly aspects one of which I am focusing on here. I hope to see more answers and I'm glad when I see a degree of objectivity in the answers. TWH 08172006

Intelbarn I agree that "Marx's labor theory of value is completely discredited. It completely rejects both the time-value of money, as well as the risk associated with investment." What do you read into my Q that makes it necessary to point out those things. And doesn't my Q implicitly suggest that Marx was wrong in that there are other factors to exploit even factors not related to the production of products?

Intelbarn, you said: "You seem to be saying that capitalism is unfair to entrepreneuers that fail due to competition." How so? I said nothing like that in my Q. Maybe the word exploiting connotes unfairness but how can it connote competition? Again you are reading more into the Q than is there.

The focus of the Q is exploitation of all the stakeholders in a Capitalist economy, from owners to workers, to consumers, to suppliers, and even to the members of the community supporting and depending on the economic enterprise operating in their midst. TWH 08182006

This Q is not about Marx or his discredited materialist theories about human beings and his interpretation of how economics works, its about the understanding of how capitalism is working and in particular the ugliest aspect of unregulated so called "free market capitalism." In light of my own additions, I welcome participants to amend, revise or expand on their answers hopefully improving them in the process.

gm makes a point that I admit not knowing. He thiught he said that workers were alienated from their work by capitalists who took away the added value of labor's productivity. I call this exploitation.
TWH 08232006

gm makes a point that I admit not knowing. I thought Marx said that workers were alienated from their work by the capitalists who took away most of the added value of labor's productivity. I call this exploitation.
TWH 08232006

Answer 1

Yes, it is the nature of competition in a market economy to exploit whomever you can, because in order to get ahead, you have to outcompete everyone else. Even when companies cooperate by forming inter-company agreements, they are competing with consumers for their money by raising prices, or competing with their employees for money by keeping wages and salaries low.

Democracy has tempered some of the worst abuses by making companies and capitalists more accountable to their consumers and employees (with the passage of product safety and employee rights laws). However, with the growth of the influence of money in the politics of democratic nations, democracy (along with consumer and employee protections) becomes more and more eroded.

Answer 2

Marx's labor theory of value is completely discredited. It completely rejects both the time-value of money, as well as the risk associated with investment.

Tell you what, next time you get your haircut, offer to pay your barber for the haircut not today, but in 20 years, with no interest.

Let me know how that goes over and then thank Marx.

Edited to hopefully answer your question slightly better.

You seem to be saying that capitalism is unfair to entrepreneuers that fail due to competition.

In short - competition causes societies to advance. To expand a little bit, competition forces firms to increase productivity to stay in business.
Improving productivity is how a nation creates wealth - which increases GDP and standard of living.
So - no, it isn't "exploiting anyone".

The reason I brought Marx's labor theory of value into this is that Marx felt that greater productivity could only be accomplished by adding more workers, when in fact the opposite is true (diminishing marginal returns on both capital and labor).

Answer 3

It is correct, a bit. Capitalism is based on choice, which also means it is based on gambling as well. If what you are trying to cite is say, what if a company falls through, and thus is affect all businesses with it (suppliers, workers, shareholders) than yes you are right, howeve rit isn't exploitation. The poeple that choose to open a business spend a lot of money. Whether the business works or not depends on the economy and their leadership. It is also up to the workers who choose to be affilated with them. Your right that it is a devastating blow should the worst happen, but communism is no better. In communism, the government runs it all, and takes much of anyone profit. In capitalism, people make their own choices. Basically the people are mindless drones, nothing but a single cog in the working machine that is the state. In capitalism people choose how to work themselves. If you haven't noticed, most capitalist countries have little or no form of art that has originated there. (Heard a pop singing senation from China lately? Hell no. South Korea and Japan, they are booming all over the world.)

Choice makes people happy. Happy people do better work. America outproduced communist Russia ten-fold during the cold war. Numbers do not lie.

Answer 4

Marx does not say that capitalism is based on exploiting workers!!!!! Capitalism is based on the alienation of the workers as well as the capitalists. Capitalism is a disease that has innfected not only the workers but also the employers for they are not humans anymore because all that they can think about is profit. This is what Marx truly says. You need to read his book

Answer 5

Capitalism is not based on exploitation of anybody. But is based on service to your fellowman. If by capitalism you mean free enterprise.

"(Free enterprise) permits you to obtain for your goods and your labor that which they are worth to the men who buy them, but no more. (Free trade) permits no deals except those to mutual benefit by the unforced judgment of the traders.”

That's the ugliest part of free trade. You can only get paid for providing or doing what your fellow man wants, not for what you want to provide or do. Who is exploited when all deals are to the mutual benefit of the traders. If its free trade how can it be otherwise.

Answer 6

I forget, what system was it that does not exploit the workers? Oh yes, NONE OF THEM. In most leftest countries the workers are happy just not to be killed for the good of the state.