whats the deal with pathetic mpg output in hybrids and the sudden lack of breakthrough technology in transport

Question

why do even the best hybrid cars get only 60 mpg when that is being accomplished in europe now without hybrid technology? Why did the honda in the 1980s get 40mpg and now no better than 35 w/o the "magic" of the hybrid? Why hasn't there been any significant breakthrougs in transportation technology in the last 15 years? Hybrids have huge potentian to get over 100 mpg... why aren't they?

Answer 1

In 2002 I rushed out and bought a Toyota Prius, thinking I was onto the wave of the future. I never ever saw 60 MPG out of that car, and the reality was more like 44 MPG. As the car aged and the battery pack sulphated, the mileage dropped. I paid almost 6 k more than the Echo which got 40 MPG. I was very disappointed. I bought a CLK 230 mercedes and got 35 MPG while riding in serious comfort for a few thousnad more than the Prius.
The truth is that we have the technology to not have any dependence on foriegn oil. We don't have the Government backing of any program to get it done. If the hundreds of billions of dollars that is going into the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, were directed towsrds building this technology, more Americans would have better jobs, the solutions would be found quickly, and the Middle East would be a bunch of Camel riding date farmers who had no interest in the US. Look at what the aerospace industry did for technology in the 50s and 60s. By 1968 we were on the moon. American manufacturing was booming, our spin off products were revolutionizing the world.
Lets try building a bio diesel hybrid that gets 100 MPG on recycledvegetable oil. Lets allow the Mercedes Smart car to be sold here in the US and let Detriot begin to emulate that technology with E85 cars that use fuel manufactered by America's farmers and blended with the gasoline that we produce here. These cars have the potential of getting 60-80 MPG and could be on the streets in two years. How about the Tuk Tuk, a motorcycle based small truck that is powered by LPG and in the passenger version can carry six passengers and get 60 MPG. The reason is that the US Government wants to spend money supporting the oil industry at your and my expense.

Answer 2

Be careful when comparing US fuel economy numbers with that of European cars - the US gallon is smaller than the Imperial gallon, so cars in Europe will appear to have better MPG than those in the US. There's also different governmental testing cycles, and those can inflate numbers as well. (On the Japanese 10-15 test cycle, the Toyota Prius already hits your 100MPG number, using Imperial gallons...)

For example, the Toyota Prius:

US 2005 EPA ratings are 60MPG city, 51MPG highway, 55MPG combined.
For comparison units, 3.9l/100km or 72MPG Imperial city, 4.6l/100km or 61MPG Imperial highway, 4.2l/100km or 66MPG Imperial combined.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/20934.shtml

Canada 2005 OEE ratings are 71MPG city, 67MPG highway, but that's Imperial gallons. The ratings are also listed as 4.0l/100km city and 4.2l/100km highway.
http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/transportation/personal/pdfs/most-efficient-vehicles-2005.pdf

UK 2005 VCA ratings are 56.5MPG urban (cold), 67.3MPG extra urban, and 65.7MPG combined, again Imperial gallons. Alternately that's 5.0l/100km urban (cold), 4.2l/100km extra urban, and 4.3l/100km combined.
http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/search/vehicleDetails.asp?id=10982

Japan 2005 using the 10-15 cycle is (if my Japanese translation is right) 35.5km/l or 33.0km/l depending on option grade. That's 2.8l/100km or 83US MPG or 100 Imperial MPG, and 3.0l/100km or 77 US MPG or 93.2 Imperial MPG. I do note a OnMouseOver note that's something about 30.0km/l though...


Depending on how you drive, you can achieve 100+ US MPG in an unmodified US Toyota Prius or Honda Insight, both currently available hybrids (although Honda is discontinuing the Insight after the 2006 model year).
http://www.greenhybrid.com/
http://www.calcars.org/calcars-news/101.html


Take a look at the weights of the vehicles from the past to current - quite often vehicles have been getting bigger over time, and have more gadgets or engineering (like more pollution controls, or air bags, or...). Weight will bring down MPG.

True enough, there hasn't been any new breakthroughs in engine design since maybe the computers in the late 70s. (The first hybrids were out in the 1900s... (see: http://pressroom.toyota.com/Releases/View?id=TYT2004091350471 ) Only with modern computers and lightweight but denser battery packs have they become able to be mass-produced.)

Answer 3

It's not uncommon for there to be a gap between potential and reality. You say hybrids have potential to get over 100 mpg. I don't know what that is based off but even if it is possible, the cost associated might make it impractical for mass production. If going from 60mpg to 100mpg translates to paying triple the price for the car, no one would buy it and no one would produce it. There will always be the law of diminishing returns and the higher your goal, the harder it will be to squeeze out a few more mpg.

Answer 4

There actually is some very exciting technology in the works. I'm most excited about the hydrogen fuel cells. It is COMPLETELY impractical to store the hydrogen because the liquid must be kept a -423 degrees and the gass is at 155 psi, so containment would either use far more energy than you save or you'd be driving a bomb, but there is a company out there that is working on technology to CONVERT regular fuel - be it gas or hydrogen peroxide ot what have you - into water and hydrogen INSIDE THE CAR. The comapny - I've forgotten the name - is in Ivyland, PA.

Answer 5

Well one issue would be the new regulations that require more safety stuff on the car & to meet smog regulations. That means the newer cars can't be as light as they used to be. In Europe I'm pretty sure they sell higher octane gas, which should burn hotter making the engines more efficient.