We hold these truths......?

Question

to be self evident that all men are created equal. Given when these words were written they really only meant men who owned land and happened to be white. Today the scope of it has broadened but the idea is the same. My question is: If all of us are equal, how come same sex marriage is still illegal?

crispy-liked the sentiment but I really wasnt going for everyone being gay just letting those that are in on the pursuit of happiness.
Pyramid head-nice argument against it saying beastiality is the same thing very mature Im sure your parents are proud.
AllEars- I can not believe youre going to use a biblical reference to justify a legislative action. Church and state are supposed to be separate right?

Liked the answer steph, I think youve misjudged me though, I am very involved in the christian church. I am one of the last of the templar knights. I just dont believe that it is a sin. In some cases I think its unseemly but you could say that about some straight people. I dont see why we should legislate another campaign of discrimination in this country. Look at the civil rights movement

Answer 1

First, let's dispel one myth. The ban on same-sex marriage has nothing to do with sexual orientation or reproduction. It is pure gender-based discrimination, because sexual orientation never enters into the equation.

A gay man and a lesbian woman can get married, never have sex and still have all the same legal benefits and protections of that status. So, sexual orientation has nothing to do with it.

A man and a women, of any sexual orientation, can get married, without ever having sex and without ever raising children. In fact, they can get married even if both of them are biologically incapable of having children. So, marriage has nothing to do with reproduction.

However, two straight women, who will only ever have sex with men, cannot get married to gain legal benefits for their children. They're not gay, so it's not a sexual orientation issue. It's not a reproduction issue, since both plan to have children the old fashioned way. And if one woman raising a child is legal, I can't imagine how two women, both straight, working together to raise their children could be worse than a single parent.

The ban on same-sex marriage is pure gender-based discrimination. But it was put in place by religious groups that don't like homosexual relationships. So, we have gender-based discrimination enacted solely because of religious doctrine.

Two constitutional violations for the price of one.

There are no valid non-religious reasons for prohibiting same sex marriage. See the long analysis on the link below. And religious grounds are never valid reasons to enact secular law under our constitution.

Sadly, too many people just want to enforce their particular religious and moral codes on everyone, and we haven't finished explaining to them what that's just wrong.

Answer 2

First, you are quoting the Declaration of Independence, a document with no legal authority in America. Years later the Constitution was adopted. The Declaration of Independence merely informed King George that we were asserting independence.

Secondly, it seems to me that the stronger argument is the "Equal Protection Clause" of the 14th Amendment (passed in 1868).

The argument you make seems sound. The State should treat all people equally. Those who believe that marriage should only be between a man and a woman, should not be discriminated against for that belief; those who believe that such a union can be between two members of the opposite sex should also not be discriminated against.

The real problem, it seems to me, is the State sanctioning a religious practice. Why not simply recognize a "civil union," and the rights it engenders (child welfare, health care, tax benefits, etc.), and let the churches and its members decide what they (for religious purposes) decide a "marriage" is? Else, it seems to me, there is discrimination based upon a religious doctrine.

Throughout history, gays have existed, and it seems to me that the 14th Amendment would prohibit a state from discriminating against such people. There is no rational basis for the discrimination (there may be a religious reason, but that is another issue). Further, this does not require any religious right member from being forced to "swallow" the official recognition of gays being married. Instead, it simply removes "state" recognition of a religious definition, and employs a definition of a civil union, leaving the person free to describe it to others in the manner most appropriate for the individual.

Answer 3

Consider this.
Not quoting the Constitution verbatim, all things not written become States Rights.

If a "few states" rule in favor of same sex marriages, what happens if they move to a state that does not recognize that marriage.

Marriage carries property rights, divided between the two, in case of divorce and/or death of one. And what of children and custody rights?

This creates chaos in court decisions.

When "States Rights" come into play, recognition of laws between states must have some commonality to be enforced equally.
States can only accomplish this with agreements or by "majority rule".

Those laws that cannot be agreed upon between states, then must be decided by our Supreme Court, or a Constitutional Amendment.

Was this not done in the case of slavery.

As Lincoln stated, "A country cannot survive, half free and half slave."

Can a country endure "half, same sex marriage' and "half not"?

I have no bias, but I think not.

One has to consider that the framers of the Constitution recognized that they could not foresee all those laws that may be needed in the future. Thus, the provision for Amendments.

I think what we are witnessing today is the attempt to end "majority rule". We know that at one time this was defined by "white, and/or some religious sects".
That is undergoing tumultuous change in today's society among all Democratic countries.

I don't have a solution. Courts will be required to intervene at some point.

Answer 4

Because the people in power are slow to change it since it would be political suicide. Someone just needs to step up and change it regardless of popular opinion. Seriously, this country has a democracy, and the democracy really works in some cases, and in this case it truly does, because the majority of the nation has kept gay marriage illegal, actually pushing to make an amendment to make it illegal. The change HAS to start with the citizens. Enough people have to stand up for gay marriage for politicians to make it legal, because if the majority wants it, and won't vote for politicians who are against it, then they will be for it.

But... someone really needs to step up in politics (since the religious views and hatred towards homosexuals won't disappear overnight) and do what is right and morally binding considering what it says in our bill of rights.

Answer 5

How do you get that same sex marriage should be legal out of men being created equal?

All dogs are created equal too, but they don't have the right of recognized marriage by the state.

There is no connection in the two.

I wasn't saying beastiality, I was saying 2 dogs don't have the right for recognized marriage based on the fact all dogs are created equal. Nice of you to read INTO what I was writing. I guess I should break things down to a 3rd grade level from now on.

I just don't see how men being created equal implies that gay marriage should be recognized.

It makes no diff to me if it's recognized or not. I have no problem with the state recognizing marriage for anyone. My problem was with your logic.

Answer 6

First of all, you are wrong about what the words mean. They did not only apply to white land onwers, they applied to everyone. The point they were trying to make is that there are certain things that everyone is born with (life, liberty, pursuit of happiness). These things can not be given to anyone or earned, but they can be taken away.

Everyone is equally human. However, not all behaviors are equal. Some people choose to engage in behavior that we discriminate against (stealing, murder, child abuse, drug use, smoking, etc.). Since homosexuality is a chosen behavior we can discriminate against it like any other behavior we don't approve of.

Answer 7

Because the men who wrote the words down were all white,and christians.So what do you expect from people like that?Understanding?(lol).The native americans were "understood",people in the 1600s in Salem Mass were "understood".TV preachers today want you to "understand" and send them your money.Question is,will you listen to peopl like them and let them make you think like them,or will you see for yourself how to treat other peopl.With decency,understanding,and a non judgemental attitude.You can tell a true christian,they are the ones who always tell someone else they are wrong(lol).We are all equal,except how we think,and that is what makes us different,nothing else.Good luck.

Answer 8

Because, there is no compelling reason for society to all of a sudden abandon the traditional concept of marriage and family that civilization was built upon.

As for equality, you, like everybody else, are free to marry almost any other adult of the opposite sex. How is that not equal? In the eyes of the law, and in any logical thought, that is the very definition of equal, is it not?

Answer 9

Because the Neo-cons believe that they have the duty to legislate us all into heaven. It's a shame that they don't follow what Jesus said and did a little better.

Answer 10

what does who you are having sex with have to do with the equality of men? That is a choice.

I like the Indian culture, they do not permit any signs of public affection.