Horse bad behavior problem?

Question

I have a horse that is in training at my place and he is a bucker. He is totally perfect on the ground, so sweet and you can do anything with him. But... when you put a saddle on his back, he is a different horse. He gets mad and bucks, rears, spins you name it the bad behavior he does it. And he is totally ticked off!
Now sometime I work with him and he will work fine but then all the sudden... the evil horse rears it's ugly head.
Now to just make sure I wasn't crazy, I had three other trainers come out and work with him. All of them said the same thing... You will never be able to trust that horse and he is dangerous under saddle, get rid of him. And these are trainers that have been there and done that so I trust their judgement. But...
He is so sweet on the ground and such a good boy when he doesn't have a saddle on.
Has anyone ever brought a horse back from a behavioral problem like this?
Two of the trainers said that this horse has gotten away with murder,

and that is why it will be very hard to break him of it. And that's why you could never really truely trust him.

He is not at all dangerous on the ground. You just can never ride him. You wouldn't believe the change in personality.

This horse has been checked head to toe by the vet. We even had his back checked out to make sure he wasn't sore. After he bucked me off almost six months ago, we have not had anyone ride him under saddle. All we are doing with him is lunging with the saddle and ground driving for the last four months. And after all this time he still tries to buck the saddle off. We are very gentle horsemen... We want everything to be a good experience for the horse.

I think Thatwench is right... He is a lawn ornament. That what I am telling the owners... They need to put the horse out to pasture.

We used all different kinds of saddles on him. English and western.

3 trainers have been out. One that works with stallions, one that works with babies and is a horse whisper and the last is a trainer that breeds, trains and sell cowhorses. All say the same thing.
This horse definetly abused but sometimes it is better to just put them out to pasture.
I have worked really slow with this horse but from a trainer's point, I need to tell the owners of this horse, the truth... Sure they can continue to pay me or some other trainer to try but after 4 months... Absolutely no change in the horse under saddle or even lunging without a saddle. I think it is a waste of their money to continue training and their money would be better spent putting him in a pasture somewhere.
The trainer that had the horse before me told me she told them not to buy this horse because she saw the problem, but they did not listen to her.

He is a little 4 year old paint pony gelding. Very cute! That's what makes this so hard. :(

I think you are right TLCTreeCare. I have made my decision. I can not do anymore for this little guy... I have told the owners this. I have never had to give up on a horse before so I guess that is why I keep trying.

OK I think we have the solution.. We are going to make him a campanion horse to another horse that just recently lost his pasture mate. The owner had to put their other horse to sleep. :(
SO the paint is going to go hang out with him so he is not so lonely. :)

Answer 1

If you have had three other trainers tell you get rid ofhim and you trust their judgement why question it.
This is not your horse and you are training it at some point the owner is going to want ot ride this horse right? Would you feel comfortable haveing them try? If not you need to tell the owner that you are unable to make any sort of progress with this horse and have them move on to another trainer or get rid of the horse.
Depending on what they want to do with the horse and the experience level of the rider I would get a different horse. It is not worth getting really hurt over. No horse is.

Answer 2

My cousin has an Ariabian like that. He hated the saddle. So what he did was to put the saddle on him 2 times a week, at first, and walk him around the coral. Then gradually he uped it to 3 times a week and did this for about a month. Then kept repeating that to 4,5, and then 6 times a week. He didn't ride him, just walked him at first.

About 4 months passed with him alternating days and times until he got used to the saddle. Try NOT riding him at all while he has the saddle on until he gets used to it. I know it sounds like a long time and a real pain, but it will eventually sink into his/her head that it's just going to be that way. And in the meantime, I would get a good Vet to get some X-rays of his spine. There may be a problem such as in his disks. It could be painful for him to have it on. Just wondering if you had checked that avenue. Or, it could be the kind of saddle you're using. Western or English? You could also try, if you have use of one, a lighter saddle in the beginning. If he has a spine problem of any kind (even a calcium deposit will hurt him), he will get irritated by the extra pressure on his back. I don't think he's really spoiled or nasty, but it does sound like there could be a problem you can't see. There is always a possiblity he can never be ridden that way and you may have to save him for bareback rides.

Answer 3

Questions first...How old is the horse? Mare, Stallion, gelding? What ground work, ie.... round pen reasoning and such has been done? Most cases of bad behavior stem from disrespect. Has the horse been vet checked to make sure there is NO physical problem, such as a back or kidney problem that makes a saddle painful? He may juts be spoiled,..." If I buck and act silly, they will take this darn saddle off and leave me alone" I also suggest trying some natural horsemanship methods, there are many to chose from, Pat Parelli, John and Josh Lyons, Clinton Anderson. Desensitizing and such seem to work great. I personally have used a combination of their methods and have turned several " bad horses" into great riding animals.

Answer 4

Where are you located? If you are really ready to call it quits with the horse, contact me via email at [e-mail] or have the owners do it. Every horse can be fixed. I have "fixed" several horses that had been given up on or the owners had had several other trainers try to work with without any luck. So please, before this horse ends up wasting away in a pasture or ends up put down give the owner my email.

Edited as I just read a post from someone else. I do NOT recommend leaving a saddle on a horse all day/night. You chance the horse trying to roll and hurting himself.

Answer 5

Have you checked the saddle for pinching around the girth area. Some horses have problems with the cinch and it causes a fighting action like bucking. If you have then there seems to be something with the saddle that triggers this behavior. Once this behavior happens it is impossible to get rid of. Try switching saddles. Lounge him in a round pen until he has to respect you. Try different saddles, but remember this may not work and more than likely he will still have a behavioral problem. If you like him then train him to pull a cart, sulky then you don't have to worry about the saddle anymore.

Answer 6

Ok so you say you've had a vet check him out physically and nothing showed? Then I think you need to get a specialist out - as with any animal - certain events/things spark off bad memories that are associated with these things.
I had a mare once that freaked out anytime she saw a car - I found out later she had been in an accident with one.
It sounds to me like your horse could have been abused whilst a rider was onboard or something similar to that.
I would advise you to start slowly - place the saddle on the ground near him - feed him by it, gradually place a numnah on his back without the saddle - and over time place the saddle on, dont do up the girth, you get the picture - take your time and constantly speak to him and reward him - hopefully over time he'll realise its not such a big deal and gets over his problem.
Id love if you'd let me know how you get on.

Answer 7

Unfortunately, I too am dealing with a "problem horse." Can't put a saddle on him, tried that and tied gallon jugs to the saddle for weight and noise. Worked for a little while. Just had him gelded, so will see how he acts after he heals. The pony probably has been abused, like ours. This one will probably end up as a lawn ornament pet also.

Answer 8

when you saddle him dont jump on him just cinch it up and leave it on him for a couple days make him sleep in it eat in it everything. After a couple days put a 50 lb feed sack on the saddle and strap it on there some how and just let him buck. leave the sack on there for a day then take it off for a day but keep doing this till he doesnt buck when the sack is on there and after that then you have to choices. You can get on or you can put a 100 lb sack on there. And if you use the sack repeat like you did with the 50 lb sack but if you on him then just try to tell him to walk stop etc.

Answer 9

ah ha - as soon as you said "He is a PONY"... well they are well known for being spoilt and learned at some time how to get away with things... I would put a saddle on him and lunge him for days... days and days... without getting on him.. let him buck and buck and tire himself out every day and only when he settles down (make sure he has lunged 20 mintues at least) then remove the saddle and put him away..

it is a long road out of this problem...

getting rid of him isnt fair to a new owner unless you tell him the problem...

Answer 10

I would get a 2nd opinion by a vet. It sounds like maybe x-rays or some test like that might be needed. Whatever it is they do for checking internally on horses. It sounds like there is some kind of pressure being aggravated by excess weight on his back. You said he does fine on the ground with the saddle on, right? Get a horse chiropractor or someone, too.