Is it not a bit silly to say you can go straight into heaven just because Jesus has died on the cross for you?

Question

Christians say it is OK for a scape goat to pay for your sins. My point is this. If I break a plate and you pay for it, I am positive I shall break another plate next time. What's the point in punishing somebody else for what you do wrong? This is the reason why I am more for the Heleusinian Mysteries or Greek religion. Here, it is God instead who punishes you for what you do wrong.

When I say "punish" I do not mean "in the afterlife" but now.

Well, Nettyone, what do you want me to say. If I should find my son is a rapist I would certainly hand him over to the police.

Yes lollygag, you can actually break another plate (to commit incest is to break another plate).

Sorry Tefy, but all of this does not make any sense to me. I just do not see the causal link between dying on a Cross and inviting us to a place in Heaven. Can you explain yourself further on?

JKM, sorry darling, but I am not missing the true message here (in fact I do understand it) the problem is though that I do not agree wiht it.

Well Youshould, I think you´ve got the point right. When I say "let God punish you" I mean to say "live as you will and pay for it".

Well Markspanishfly, I see where you are coming from. As you probably know, in the long term Jesus said "why have you given me this burden Father; is it absolutely necessary I go through it?" Why are you saying he took on this duty and decided to dye on the cross for us?

OK Monkeywoman (if you strand you suffer). Before the supernatural became concentrated into written dogmas, when priestly classes interpreted the will of a sole and omnipotent God, what was perceived in altered states was the core of innumerable cults, precisely under the heading of revealed knowledge. The first hosts or holy sacraments were psychoactive substances, such as peyote, wine, or certain fungi.

On the other hand, only time will separate feast, medicine, magic, and religion. Disease, punishment, and impurity are the same thing at the beginning: a threat to be conjured by means of sacrifices. Some offer victims (animal of human) to obtain the favor of a Deity, while others eat together something considered divine.

This second form of sacrifice-the agape, or sacramental banquet-is connected almost infallibly with drugs. This happens today with peyote in Mexico, ayahuasca in the Amazon, iboga in Western Africa, or kava in Oceania...

....many indications suggest that other plants were used in the past in an analogous way. From remote antiquity, the ingestion of somethign considered "meat" (or "blod") of a certain god can be considered a trait of primitive or natural religion, aldo common in initiation ceremonies or other rites of passage.

Even if there is a great difference between cruel and not cruel rites, between the gift of a victim and a sacramental banquet, both can be joined by rites such as mass, where the memory of the scapegoat Crist ("lamb that washes away the sins of the world") creates a blessed bread and wine, body and blood of the sacrificial victim.

It is curious to note that the Greek word for drug is “phármakon” and that "pharmakós”-by changing only the final letter and accent-means "scapegoat". Far from being a mere coincidence, this demonstrates to what degree medicine, religion and magic are inseparable in the beginnings.

...in these cults the use of one self as receptacle for punishment was commonplace all over the world. I do agree with you when you say God would punish you if you strand.

Answer 1

. You aren't supposed to question religions, just mail in your money!

Answer 2

That is a very naive, flippant statement given by those who enjoy goading or provoking reactions and is only part of the answer.
For those who believe, your above statement is only the starting point. It's almost like saying "o.k. you can now sit the exam". Those who don't believe in Jesus don't even make it into the exam room.
In the book of James it talks about Faith without good works is dead. This means if someone claims they believe but do not show their faith in doing good works, they do not truly believe. (A little bit like those clever arses who say they believe in God, just in case...). Empty words.
Your scape goat analogy is in fact Biblical. It is what Jews literally did to get redemption for their sins. They put them on a goat and sent it into the wilderness. Jesus knowing that man could never be perfect accepted the role as the ultimate scapegoat and died taking on himself the sins of the world. That was why God abandoned Christ on the cross, because he had become tainted by our sins.
Believing in God and Jesus demands a change in that persons life. "By your works you shall be known". If the "believer" doesn't change their life or the way they live, they don't really believe.
The point about punishing somebody else is simple. We as individuals can't pay the price for our sins. We can't atone for what we do wrong. We can try, but we will always come up short of perfection.
Christianity is a simple religion full of complexities, as are the majority of religions. My answer is short and I haven't even started to go into the finer points, but the starting point is believing that Christ died for you on the Cross so your sins could be forgiven. That is the first step along the path and the path to God is a long one.

Answer 3

It's not silly if you accept the shedding of Christ's blood as final atonement for your sins. Jesus knew "for that cause He came into the world". In the old days, at the day of atonement the high priest had to offer a lamb, without spot or blemish for the sins of the people. Jesus was that lamb. John the baptist said when he saw Jesus coming to be baptized, " behold the lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world". Jesus said that John was the greatest prophet that ever lived. Even better, when you accept Him (Jesus), He knows that we are weak, but with prayer He gives you strength to live the life(stop breaking plates).

Answer 4

Yes, it does sound absurd. And certainly not fair. However, I have been overwhelmed by the love and grace of God, so however crazy it sounds, it is a reality.

However, it isn't for people who pretend to be repentant and don't really long for God. If try and abuse God's grace by pretending to be repentant and go out and do the same thing, he isn't going to be fooled! He won't stand for that behaviour. But if you cry out to him from your heart he will come to you and I can tell you from experience, once God touches your deep heart you will never be the same again. He will give you a new heart. The nearest comparison I can think of is falling in love.

At the end of the day, it was Jesus choice to die. And the reason why? If that isn't love, I don't know what is. I have come to a place recently where I have come to completely accept that God loves me completely with a passion beond imagination. And I won't candy coat it, I admit that is one of the hardest things I have ever accepted.

Grace, sure it is crazy, offensive and incredible. But is sure is lovely. They don't sing amazing grace for nothing. I guess he must have decided you were worth it.

Answer 5

Hi. I agree that it's silly to think you get to go to heven just because Jesus died on the cross. I also think you're missing the true message...
Apparenty, (I'm not exactly Christian either but this is my take on it - Ok?) Jesus sacraficed his life to cleans the world of their sins That is to say, he put our needs in front of his own. The message being ... "I love you - I love you unconditionally." Even though Jesus was being crucified by his own "brothers" so to speak, he found it in his heart to forgive them. God (thru Jesus) was saying, "You are all human, you all have faults. I know you will sin. I have made you, so I know. But I will always love you, and even if you sin, you may ask for forgivenes (and if you're truely sorry), I will forgive you. And because this is so, you should do the same for your fellow man. In his greatest sin, you too should find it in your heart to forgive him. All men are created equal."
So we weren't really punnishing Jesus for our sins...he was saving us from our own. It's not up to me to tell you which religion to follow...I haven't found one that I fully understand either. God is with you at a different level than knowlege anyway. He walks with you're soul. God does not punish you, you punish yourself by not forgiving and by carying anger. That's the point. If you can let go of the negative energy that is not God, it will make room for the light and the love of God to set you free.

Sorry if I got a little preachy there. It's just what I felt was right to say. Hope this helps you.

P.S. It's apparent by reading the answers to this question that we as a society are lost spiritually. We have lost our faith. It has besome too confusing. We don't trust anything anymore. I must thank you for posting your question. Maybe it will help us (at least some of us) seek out the truth. We are like a bundle of feathers in the wind right now. We all seem to be lost. Maybe this is God's way of helping us get back on track?

Answer 6

I'm a little rusty but Jesus died to erase the original sin (the apple thing). It was his choice as he had the power and means to live out a 'normal' life. The result of his death allows us to once again spend eternal life with God and see his face. Jesus' death is similar to a Mulligan in golf. You cannot repeat the original sin, i.e. break another plate.

Then you'll have to explain to me how Adam and Eve were to populate the world with no incest.

Answer 7

It may be fairy tale thinking, but if it gives great comfort to those who chose to believe it, does that infringe upon your life? About the break the plate scenario, you're stretching the point a little here. It sounds as if you have found your place in the Universe, let others do the same and you'll be less frustrated.

Answer 8

Jesus died for our sins and so we can go to heaven but it is not automatic. First of all you have to repent and accept him as your saviour, then you are forgiven but yes you will sin again. Just put your life in his hands and he will do the rest. After all if your son or daughter does something wrong they don't stop being your son/daughter do they. It's the same with God.

Answer 9

Hey...if you read the Bible, it never says anything about humans going to Heaven...this is something phony priests and vicars tell you. Heaven is a place for God and Jesus, Earth was made for people ...until they ruined it. Jesus says we will be in paradise if we believe in him. Paradise is the Earth restored to it's former glory, It is not Heaven...sorry to dissapoint ya!

Answer 10

I see where you are coming from, but think you may be over simplifying it. When Jesus died on the cross so that we could have a place in heaven, He invited us to live in a state of Grace with Him. That means following Him. Following His words, His teachings and trying to live a life that is as close to His as possible. That we should worship God and put Him first in our lives, that we should love our neighbour, and ourselves and always strive to do right, to love and to be truthful. He knows that we will fall short of this most of the time for all sorts of reasons, because we are human, and He is God. So He continues to forgive us our sins, as long as we are genuinely sorry and do our best not to carry on sinning. If we say we love Jesus and want to follow him, then go around treating people badly, hurting ourselves and others, breaking plates He paid for, if you like, then He knows our hearts, knows that we are not really serious and isn't fooled for a second. I cannot speak for Him and tell you what fate awaits these people, but if we continue to try our best, admit when we are sinning and ask for forgiveness and strength not to sin again, then He promises us that we have a place in Heaven. If you read the gospels, He makes it clear that people who use His name, or are not really committed, may not get all that they think they will when the time comes.

By dying on the cross, He invites us to have a place in heaven, this invitation is extended to absolutely everyone, He genuinely wants to share His Heaven with us, for eternity. But he gives us the choice. He sent His Son to die for us, but also to release us from the laws of the Old Testament and to live with Him in a State of Grace. You are right, it is God who punishes us for what we do wrong, and it is hard for us as humans to get our head around God being God, as well as Jesus and the Holy Spirit being God. That's the difference between religion and faith, with faith, you just have to believe, and accept, with religion, you have to do a set of things to reach God, with Faith, you just have to accept His Son, and that He died to pay for your sins.

I hope this helps answer your question, so no, personally, I do not think it is silly, but then I think it is more complex than your quesion allowed for, taken just the way your question allows for, then yes, it would seem silly. God Bless.

Answer 11

Like most religions in the world today you will discover that religions are created to control and manipulate its members. Many societies use religion to control the masses, hence, we have a lot of Christians here in the west and Islamic religions in the east. Religions; however, always contradict themselves in order to protect themselves, eg. "Thou Shalt not Kill" Yet it's OK to kill if your government wants to send you to war, or for other accepted reasons.