Did you know that Thomas Jefferson was a forefather?

Question

The Bushians, Bush Christians, try to justify combining church and state today in 2 ways:
1. Claim there is no such separation.
2. Claim cuz the forefathers were Christian that they wanted it this way.

So, let's examine what the forefathers were thinkin in their own words so u can stop falsely speaking 4 them:

Thomas Jefferson, one of our Christian forefathers stated on this topic: "...I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between Church and State."
http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/churchstate.html

Emphasis on the last sentence in his quote, "thus building a wall of separation between Church and State."

I know you Bushians wont agree with bold truth and fact cuz you lack that ability and only want to believe what you want to be true.

But there it is in your face!

Answer 1

I agree. Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin were probably the two most vociferous proponents of seperation of church and state and I think that is a sensible arrangement.

Believe me, the Bush white house wouldn't be as gung-ho for combining church and state if it was somebody else's church we were talking about here. If they were suddenly required to combine oh, let's say Islam and the White House you would suddenly hear Bush talking about how important Jefferson's ideas about the seperation of church and state were. I am a lifelong Christian and I still don't want religion in my government. I don't think it's fair to my friends who aren't Christian and fairness is really at the heart of this matter. After all, we are a nation that holds certain truths to be "self-evident," not the least of which is that we are all created equal. Being Christian (or Muslim, or Hindi or even really great at math) can impart some important values in your life and there's nothing wrong with letting your values guide your choices but, dictating one religion over all the others as the official religion of our country is foolish and so is trying to interweave the irrationality of faith or spirituality with the common sense of running a democracy. Even Jesus said we should "render unto caeser what is caeser's and render unto God the thing's that are God's." I get the feeling he understood all too well the inherent difficulties in trying to combine the two.

Answer 2

Bushians never dispute those words. There is a wall between the Church and the State. The State does not endorse any one religion. Our national heritage is just more based on Christian traditions than Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, etc. Our judicial system is based on Judeo-Christian ethics (not texts). I'm sorry, that was just the in thing in the 1700's. It's been working pretty well for the last 230 years, so there's no need to change it for the sake of political correctness, which is a passing (hopefully) and horribly destructive fad.

If laws were made that so many people demand that would ban Christian relics from public places (the cross in the City of LA seal, mangers on the local courthouse grounds, allowing prayer in school, etc), that would be a law prohibiting the free exercise of that religion.

"Bushies", or more accurately, conservatives, believe in the freedom OF religion. Not the freedom FROM religion.

When you are prohibited from practicing whatever belief you want to, you just let me know. The Christians are getting pissed off because people like you are trying to prohibit them from practicing their religion. Now grow up and get over yourself.

I am not, by the way, Christian. I don't agree with all of Bush's policies. I do, however, believe in the Constitution, and Mr. Jefferson's wise words, so quit trying to bend them to your will.

Answer 3

i am not a christian or even an American... So i might have very diffrent perspective. You have quoted thomas jefferson. But the facts are that jefferson wasnt the only one who spoke about this.

Your forefathers did not want religions other than christianity given any power in the state like what was going to happen in Europe at that time.

These are highly intelligent people who knew well what was going around them. They held prayers together before meetings and so on, meaning most of them are devout christians.

Answer 4

Just wanted to say that this country was NOT founded on christian principles, some people need to do their research well. Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, etc were all deist, they believe god or the creator created the world but does not intervene in human affairs and they did not believe in Holy texts and they felt that no matter how much they beg or requested it would not change the course of nature.

Answer 5

Good start... here's some more.

"...an amendment was proposed by inserting the words, 'Jesus Christ...the holy author of our religion,' which was rejected 'By a great majority in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and the Mohammedan, the Hindoo and the Infidel of every denomination.'" From Jefferson's biography

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes" Letter to von Humboldt, 1813

“The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God.”

"Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." 1787 letter to his nephew

Answer 6

I agree, church and state should be seperate, but there is one problem with your information (irrelevant to whether church and state should be seperate, and that is that Thomas Jefferson was a self-professed Deist, not Christian. Deists believe in God, but are opposed to organized religon.

Answer 7

That is because this country was formed by people trying to escape religious persecution.

Now if you are President and your religious
There is now way that you should be expected to keep your religion separate because the nature of being religious is that it encompasses everything you do.

Answer 8

Your are correct and George Bush wants to believe that he is Americas new forefather with his 800 plus signing statements to all the legislature in 6 1/2 years...Blasphemy I say, and he is a cook!!!

Answer 9

Thomas Jefferson was a Deist...not a Christian.

The rest of your facts are wrong, too.

Answer 10

Cool!