if our ancestors were NOT born here either, who's illegal when you think about it?

Question

the only real citizens that can't get "kicked out" are prolly the Native Americans...who have been here the longest. At the turn of the century lots of Irish and Italian people came to the US illegally. not all came thru ellis island. But they ended up contributing a lot to american society....and are now accepted, becuz in the end, they are of european decent, and are NOW considered WHITE.
That makes me think, perhaps this anger against today's illegal immigrants is a RACIST response...typical of conservative governments and of most american people.

Also, lots of racist sentiments were present against italians and the irish during the turn of the century up til the 1960s when the focus was shifted to african american's fight for civil rights.

the process is called "racialization" in anthropology....taking a new group, treating it as a different "race" for the purpose of alientating them and shutting them in deprived neighborhoods.
what do you think?
thanks for any responses.

Answer 1

First, yes, until somewhere around 1900 there wasn't much of an "immigration policy", let alone laws. Dues to the ideas of the times immigration was encouraged - they thought the country should grow to fill up those limitless frontiers out west. When groups that the locals were prejudiced against began to show up - chinese, spaniards, or east indian - individual laws were passed to limit their influx. SO most peopel's anscestors are not "illegal".

As to the "anyone but the Indians"... well they didn't have any governments or laws. A nomadic society does not have that level of formality in government. When they realized what was happening, some groups used the tools at had - spears and arrows- to enforce thier laws. The story of the Cherokee is particularly unfortunate, and the history of most nations, including the USA, Britain, and Spain are not great examples of tolerance and charity.

Does that negate any law you choose to ignore? Philosophical discussions aside, a group of people, thorugh evolution or revolution, end up with a government that enforces its laws accross the country. People who try to claim the country's laws don't apply or that they have special privileges? The state will enforce its laws, by force if necessary, and noboudy from the Cherokee Nation through David Koresh has won.

I think you need to revisit your history books. The ***** people, or blacks, or former slaves, or whatever is politically correct today - they have been considered less than white people since before they were imported to America. Yes, all countries and nations had racism and ethnicism; they though other people were inferior or deficient in some way. The more different, the stronger the prejudice. Irish from the British Empire were considered better than Italians, most of whom were illiterate immigrants from the poor south and Sicily. They were still considered better than Chinese, or native Americans, or blacks. (mind you ther were still bad things said about everyone from the French to the Welsh to the Spanish - so it was equal-opportunity discrimination).

I think the thing that finally made racist attitudes unacceptable was the discovery of exactly what happened at the German concentration camps. People could ignore far-away or far ago massacres as "those killers were not like us". Millions killed in 1930's China by Japanese, or 1915 Armenians by Turks could be excused as "we don't do that". I think when people found that Germans, who were educated north Europeans like the social elite of the "civilized" world, could behave in that manner, they were shocked.

It brought up the question - if they can herd 6 million men, women and children into camps, systematically starve and slaughter them - what stops that from happening here? This slowly changed Western attitudes toward hate for groups who are ethnically or racially different. We started to see enforcement of the existing laws and new ones forcing people to NOT discriminate.

The reason the focus is on the black people now is because the discrimination was systematic, institutional, and degrading for very long; the problems are still being fixed.

As to distinctions between legal vs. illegal immigrants - a country once established, has the right to control its borders and immigration. Otherwise, you end up with Texas - the Mexicans let too many Americans settle there, and eventually they rebelled and took the whole place. At the very least, laws should ensure that whoever arrives will be a productive participant in their new society.

What are you suggesting as a solution? If you open the borders wide open, what do you think will happen? The problem now is that the current situation -it's tough, but if you sneak in, you're 90% there- has been allowed to grow until it is out of control. Some industries cannot run without (illegal) Mexican labour. If you fine the employers, they have to have a legitimate way to verify the credentials of all employees. You don't want to make it dangerous for them to hire anyone latino?

I would suggest the USA establish a counterfeit-proof ID card system for immigrants. They then fine employers who hire illegals, and set up a guest-worker program. People who work well for 10 years and learn English and have an employer promising full-time work should be eligible for a green card and can bring their families.

Answer 2

Your points are well made. There are indeed proper channels and methods for becoming a legal permanent resident in the U.S. I'm not the child of an immigrant but am the grandchild of two, the great-grandchild of a third, and a great-grandchild of someone who was originally from here, as in Native American. It seems that a simple yes/no to these issues should be sufficient but it's not. One of the biggest reasons it isn't is the legislation behind immigration law. When we look at the history of the laws, even before the Immigration and Nationality Act, we can see a very definite trend in terms of the people we wanted to come to the U.S. going back to the 1880s when we imported the Chinese to come build the railroads. Then, of course, in the early 1920s, new legislation did its best to kick them all out, and went toward importing Europeans. Come the second world war, and no importing whatsoever to the point of inhumane actions. See the book Voyage of the Damned. For the last fifty years, up until 2002, migrant workers coming to the U.S. from Mexico to help with agriculture was pretty much open. Okay, you are supposed to have a work visa but there are just too many of you and we need you working the crops so come on in. Then 9/11 happened and the new DHS does a 180 degree turn. Did that help solve problems? Not really. It created more problems. Could it have been fixed? It could have but it would have taken some serious legislational effort and money and the U.S. was not in the mood. By the new minority, I am assuming you mean Caucasions. You better take a look at the census. We are no longer a majority on our own. Non-Caucasions (as a whole) out-number us. I don't know if you are old enough to remember the early 1980s and the investment in the U.S. by Japanese corporations like Sony. There were those, then, that said that our banks, entertainment industry, high technology, and others would be owned by Japanese corporations if we didn't put some kind of regulation on those investments. Those doom-sayers were absolutely right. And here we are, forty years later, in the same exact fix again. What is the answer? Comprehensive Immigration Reform. No - that doesn't mean letting everyone in. That means taking a bad set of laws (the Immigration and Nationality Act) and throwing it away and coming up with new laws that make sense and building those laws from the ground up. This problem needs to be addressed in its entirety. For nearly 100 years, we have fixed whatever the current problem is and ignored that, by doing so, every single time, it has only been made worse a few years later. The INA is a lot like the IRC (Internal Revenue Code). They are both messes and need to be fixed by tearing them down and rebuilding them, again, from the ground up. But it won't happen. Do you know why? Because our Congresspeople are too lazy and self-interested to serve the people that voted for them.

Answer 3

Actually the Native Americans got a raw deal, too. I am Native American and the white man took everything from us. We have a Native American in prison serving time for murder and it was the FBI that murdered the man. The answer to who's legal nobody really is except the Native Americans. All of our ancestors came from overseas. So the government really needs to clarify what they say. Really they shouldn't be rough on any of them because their ancestors came from the same place. I do know they are rough on the mexicans because they come here to work and send the money home because $100.00 here is $1000.00 there. They also get alto of help. They can get foodstamps and all sorts of money while working. They get paid under the table. No paystubs or records of them working.

Answer 4

Well as I recall my grandfather and uncles telling us when we were children they let them become citizens as they entered the US. The US Census took note of names of everyone that entered and the spelling of some names were changed as families entered. I also learned this when I was in school. I guess I couldn't get deported anyway seeing that I am more than 3/4 Cherokee Indian.

Answer 5

The words you want to play with are defined by a goverenment with the will and ability to inforce those definitions according to the laws it makes.
As for native americans, there is evidence that there were another people her before them who they practiced genicide against.

Answer 6

Strictly speaking, our ancestors were born every where.

Answer 7

How would you know....

http://academic.udayton.edu/race/02rights/native14.htm