The problem is that you are assuming that x~y for some y.
For example, if your set S is {1,2,3,4} and your relationship ~ is:
1 ~ 1
2 ~ 2
2 ~ 3
3 ~ 2
3 ~ 3
Then you can see that this satistfies properties 2 and 3, but it is not true that 4~4.
You can replace (1) with the property:
(1') For every a, there is a b such that a ~ b.
2006-07-23 08:50:07
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answer #1
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answered by thomasoa 5
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Assume that you have a non-empty set of elements and a relation on it, such that the relation is never true.
Then since a~b is never true, a~b ==> b~a vacuously.
Also since a~b and b~c are never true, a~b and b~c ==> a~c is true vacuously.
But a~a is not true.
Thus this is symmetric, transitive, but not reflexive.
Let's assume that the original set of axioms {1,2,3} is denoted by A. Let B denote {1',2,3} where 1' is a result of 2 and 3.
I hope you are humoured by this part.
Define a relation ~ on the set of definitions of an "equivalence relation" such that two definitions X and Y are equivalent (denoted X~Y) if it can be shown that these define "equivalence relation" in the "same" (up to a "definition-morphism") way.
It would be easy to see that this is an equivalence relation (knowing that "definition-morphic" is an equivalence relation).
Now assume that A~B. Since 1' is a result of 2 and 3, B~B\{1'}. Therefore by the transitive property A~B\{1'}, but we already have shown that this is not true.
Thus there does not exist an equivalent definition of "equivalence relation" such that 2 and 3 imply 1'.
2006-07-23 15:53:44
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answer #2
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answered by Eulercrosser 4
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Let us be precise and let ~ be an equivalence relation on the set E. The argument you outline starts with 2), that is:
FOR ALL a, b in E, IF a~b THEN b~a.
By 3) we have the following statement, which we call Theorem 1*:
FOR ALL a, b in E, IF a~b THEN a~a. (Theorem 1*)
The important fact here is that Theorem 1* is *different* from Axiom 1), which states:
FOR ALL a in E, a~a.
An example of a relation on E which satisfies 2) and 3) but not 1) is the "empty relation". This is a relation where a~b doesn't hold for *any* a, b in E.
If we replaced 1) with Theorem 1*, then 2) and 3) would imply 1).
2006-07-23 16:06:44
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answer #3
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answered by Aaron 3
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The new "axiom" or rather "theorem" would be:
1*) If x~y for at least one y<>x, then x~x.
To see that, suppose that element x is isolated, that is, x~y is false for any y<>x. In that case, the "if x~y" in your argument can never be true, so we can't conclude anything. Choosing y = x does not help either, because the reasoning "if x~x then x~x, therefore x~x" is clearly circular.
2006-07-23 15:52:31
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answer #4
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answered by dutch_prof 4
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Mmmm, Herstein Problem 1.1.11.
2006-07-24 01:18:46
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answer #5
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answered by Anonymous
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isnt it amazing
2006-07-23 15:43:35
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answer #6
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answered by ast5792 1
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