Can some answer this one !?

Question

Are dumb dumb bullets and illegal ordinance under the Geneva convention or some convention anyway in the rules of engagement of warfare or under some law to do with international warfare - and if so- how come the metropolitan police force - a civilian force - are allowed to use them ?

Answer 1

go to wikipedia, it may answer your question on ' dum dum ' bullets.

P.S. if the police hit this man around 7 times in the head, I doubt it would matter what bullet they used.

The Hague Convention of 1899 limited the use of "explosive" bullets in military use, defining illegal rounds as a jacketed bullet with an exposed lead tip (and, by implication, a jacketed base). During the Convention, representatives from Imperial Germany provided evidence of severe expansion in flesh based on analysis of British hunting (not military) rounds. This provided a competitive advantage for the newly developed German Spitzer (pointed) rounds which did not have exposed lead at the tip. The United States and Britain disagreed with the German analysis, but declined to make a significant issue of it.

The competing small calibre Spitzer bullets, when at supersonic speeds, retain velocity better, giving a flatter trajectory, but have reduced terminal effect compared to expanding bullets. Spitzer bullets typically rotate or yaw after striking flesh, and then travel in a stable base forward orientation, and are referred to as "Latent Dum-dum" rounds. Theodore Roosevelt, writing about his experiences in Cuba noted that the 7 mm Mauser rounds used by the Spanish were usually significantly less lethal than the large calibre low velocity .45/70 Government rounds fired from the Allin Springfield trapdoor rifle. Unless a soldier was hit in the head, heart, or spinal cord it was very common for a soldier to take himself to the rear, and return to duty after a few days.

However, poorly informed soldiers of many nations occasionally try to increase the effectiveness of their ammunition by filing the gilding metal off the tip. Modified bullets are unlikely to have high accuracy. Modified bullets found on a soldier would be evidence that the soldier was not following the conventions of land warfare, and he could be treated as an unlawful combatant, and lack the rights accorded to a prisoner of war.

Thus, 'Dum-dum' came to mean a jacketed bullet illicitly or illegally modified to expand. This seems to be the most common current usage of the term - a dum-dum is usually taken to be a bullet which has been modified by the user in order to create greater injury rather than a factory produced hollow-point or soft-point round as might be chosen for hunting or law enforcement purposes.

World War I gave many soldiers their first exposure to high-velocity jacketed bullets of the modern type and many were unfamiliar with their sometimes dramatic effects on tissue. Wounds may be extremely large when compared to the bullet that causes them, particularly at close range, and this led some soldiers to accuse their enemies of using illegal "tampered" ammunition even when they were not.

The need to tamper with bullets to attempt to cause additional wounding capability is, in any case, questionable. All common military cartridges are usually considered adequately lethal for intended purposes, even when the bullets are non-expanding.

Controversy, however, does surround "intermediate" rounds such as the .223, especially when fired from short barreled weapons such as the M16-M4; this has lead some soldiers to call for a return to more powerful .30 caliber class cartridges (e.g., 30-06, .308, 8 mm) The experiemental 6.8mm SPC and 6.5mm Grendel are one consequence of this controversy.

It may be of interest that true exploding rounds such as 40 mm diameter grenades, 20 mm cannons, 25 mm cannons, mortars, and large calibre artillery, or tank rounds are allowed by the Hague convention for use against military material, not for direct use against soldiers.

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Answer 2

Dumb Dumb Bullets are not currently outlawed by any convention or treaty. However most modern military forces use steel jacketed bullets because there less likely to break apart inside someones body increasing the chance doctors could save them.

Even if the international community did restrict there use in warfare it wouldn't effect the metropolitan police because they deal only with domestic law enforcement which can only be regulated by the nation in which they operate.

Answer 3

as far as i know, they are not.

the Geneva accords were created to prevent the use of inhumane and deadly weapons on a much larger scale. They ban the use of biological or nuclear weapons, and the inhumane treatment of prisoners in a time of war. Now, as you may be getting the drift, there are a lot of loop holes in that. a civilian force is allowed (metropolitan police, SWAT,etc.) to use force equal to the threat. Dumb dumb bullets to stop a convenience store robbery would probably not work. but to stop a riot that has gone past the use of bean bag guns, maybe. plus, seeing as the Geneva Accords govern the actions of individual nations military and leaders, they don't technically apply here.

If you are wondering why they (the Geneva Accords) apply to Saddam Hussein's police force, or Kim Jong Ill, the answer is simple. they use a national police force, which is a fancy way of saying army. therefore, by defalt, they were, and are, a nation assualting it's own people.

Answer 4

The Geneva Conventions talk about faIr rules of war and treatment of prisoners but not bullets.

Other agreement prevent use of this bullet by armies since WWI, but apparently police are not constrained. It was used in London recently, see below.

Frankly, if you are shot to be killed, it may be more generous to use a hollow point and make the death a quick one.

Answer 5

Dum-dum' came to mean a jacketed bullet illicitly or illegally modified to expand. This seems to be the most common current usage of the term - a dum-dum is usually taken to be a bullet which has been modified by the user in order to create greater injury rather than a factory produced hollow-point or soft-point round as might be chosen for hunting or law enforcement purposes.and the police do not use them where you got your info from i don't know

Answer 6

I think you need to clarify why you thisnk that the Met are allowed to use these things.

The firearms normally issued to police officers have a low muzzle velocity to try and avoid "collateral damage" - a bullet passing through the intended victim and hitting someone behind them.

The effect is that the 'stopping' power is reduced. The suspect will not be brought to ground by the shot and could continue to pose a threat.

Answer 7

yes your right dumb dumbs are not suppose to be used in warfare,but so are lots of things,herbiesides arent suppose to be used but were used in veitnam,tools to get the job done,the uk police now carry guns in certain places,what is the point to carry a weapon, if you use it then,you have to justify its use,right we are now in a war,does every soldier have to justify use his weapon to protect himself,if that is the case then there really isnt any point in having weapons is there,its no good sitting there and compaining about how things are,we are all to blame,by sitting with our brains in neutral,and our fingers up our bums,in other words shifting our resposiblites on to someone else,always someone else to blame never me,have you ever been in a postion where nothing makes any sense and you know what ever judgement you make,you will have to answer for it,but you must protect public safety.
if there is armed police on the streets,and you take that conscouis thought to run,you bring in to play cause and effect,if this had been the usa it had happened in, it would be a very different story,the police would have been heroes,but british police dont shoot people,well you now have the answer,yes they do,and if it means using things that illegal,job done.

Answer 8

because they fragment on striking something so much less chance of hitting someone with a ricochet. Mandated by many city police departments for this reason. Yes the Geneva convention prohibits them.

Answer 9

Don't know anything about the convention thing but it does ask the question why could these bullets not be used for the non terrorist shot last year in London.

Answer 10

1. because police are not bound by the Geneva convention.
2. I'll bet you are an american and your state police forces,like it's citizens, are gun freaks. just as clint eastwood needs a magnum to carry out a simple arrest everyone else needs one too; with dum dums to finish the job.