Should Teachers get a pay raise, when students are said to be doing so poorly?

Question

I saw a show that said they were over paid and some were paid to do nothing.

Answer 1

I can't believe anyone would say that teachers are overpaid. Teachers are the lowest paid professionals in the US. I think that is pretty much the same around the world. I know of no teacher paid to do nothing. In fact, when people harp on teachers only working "nine months of the year" they don't understand that first, teachers work 10 months of the year and that the 42.5 hours a week that they work (I had to work 7:30 to 4:00, and that included 10 minutes a day for break on 4 out of 5 days, and 38 minutes for lunch on 4 out of 5 days. The other days, I had duty, so I had no break and only 19 minutes for lunch.) doesn't include all the time on the weekends and after school when they are planning, marking, reviewing, doing paper work, going to meetings, etc. (I spend about 2 hours a night and probably and average of 6 hours a weekend on such things. Some weekends, especially around report time, I spend about 16 hours working.) And before someone claims that other people have to work after hours and on weekends, remember those people are compensated for that extra work either directly in pay or because the harder they work, the better they get paid (commission and bonuses) or the faster they are promoted. That is not an option for teachers. Nor is working during the summer months. That is not our option.

Before a person complains about teachers, I think they need to spend no less than one week teaching. I don't think it is an exaggeration to say that 99.99999999% of the population couldn't handle more than three days in the classroom. The subs we have here can't believe we can handle it, and our students are angels compared to those back home, plus we have fewer students per teacher. (I no longer teach in America.)

As for students not learning, I agree. They aren't. It's atrocious the level of education in the US. We are cutting our own throats. Some of that has to do with poor teaching, but the majority of the fault lies with society. We undervalue education, and I'm not talking about undervaluing teachers, though it is true we do that. I'm talking about parents and social programs being more concerned about "student rights" than about students being held accountable and holding up their end of the bargain. I wonder how many people out there of my generation had parents who were even interested in hearing "their side of the story" when they were disciplined at school. And I wonder how many whose parents took their sides when a teacher disciplined them are successful, contributing members of society.

I teach abroad. When I taught in the US, every assignment was challenged. Every time a student was told to get back to work, or to stop talking, or to come to class on time, or to turn in their homework, etc., they actually thought that they could challenge the redirection. I didn't have too many discipline problems because I lucked out, but I couldn't stand by and watch the deterioration of society. I knew that the vast majority of my students were going to end up in prison or on welfare. It was a hopeless situation. I taught grade 9 and students came to me reading and writing on a grade 3 level. Was it my fault that they left reading on a grade 4 or 5 level? I'd like to see the superhuman who could have brought them from grade 3 to grade 10 in one year. So they graduated reading on a grade 8 level, and I blame society who was afraid to hold students to a higher level of expectation of behavior and achievement. We're too afraid of hurting their feelings.

At international schools, the students respect their teachers and they understand that it is up to them to do well. When I give assignments, students actually do them and many try to go above and beyond. When students have projects to work on during class, guess what? They actually work on their projects. I don't have to constantly stand over their shoulders prodding them to do what they are supposed to do. This is a shocking reaction for teachers fresh out of the US. They are always flabbergasted that students do as they are expected to do and that the biggest discipline problems we have are too much talking or students coming to class without all their supplies.

These students are sooooooo much better educated than the ones back home. While I think I'm a decent teacher, the difference is not me. The difference is the attitudes and the lack of restraints put on teachers in an international setting where students and parents wouldn't dream of making a federal case out of homework detention because there is no "federal" to make the case to.

We can bring students on week-long fieldtrips, and while it is still a pain in the ***, it doesn't require an act of congress. No way in HELL could you pay me enough to do that in the US. When Sally ended up pregnant a few weeks later, or Johnny got alcohol poisoning, who would be held responsible? Not the 16 year old student, but the teacher who had to keep an eye on 15 students 24 hours a day when students are so determined to get into trouble that they will walk ledges 10 stories up to get from one room to another to have sex, etc.

I'm not necessarily promoting a raise for teachers. I don't know that it would make much of a difference. However, always pointing the finger at the teachers for our lack of education in the States is going to get us deeper and deeper into the mire of mediocrity, or worse. We have to start at a more basic level if we want to make a change. Giving students the excuse that they are ignorant because of their teachers is a monumental mistake. It holds them responsible and accountable for nothing, and ultimately, no matter how good your teacher or how poor your teacher, if you don't apply yourself, you will not reach your potential.

Answer 2

We use the word "teacher" too loosely. A teacher is someone who honestly teachs and has students who truly learn. Not everyone who is a teacher really teachs.

However - a good teacher should be able to teach anyone - but we can't always do that without help from schools, administrators and PARENTS most of all. If skills aren't reinforced at home and all parties involved don't make an effort to help a child - then the teacher can't do everything.

Parents should be teachers, too. When parents blame teachers as the only reason their child isn't learning - they need to look in the mirror!

I didn't become a teacher because I like money - but it's hard to get by when everyone else I know makes more money than me.

I think I deserve a pay raise! I am highly qualified - have multiple degrees and certifications and teach in a low income inner city area where MY students always show marked improvement on tests and coursework.

People who say "NO - teachers shouldn't get a pay raise" - don't understand that teaching doesn't stop when school gets out. I am at home lesson planning and grading all the time! It takes a lot of work and dedication to be a good teacher.

People who don't value teachers are those who are bringing negativity and failure to American education. Those people should try standing up in front of a room of 42 11th graders, who are not all 16 years old! (most are older) - they read on a 5th grade level or lower - most have horrible manners - a very small percentage have at least 1 biological parent at home and they come to school without paper, pens and anything (including being mentally prepared!)

I've rambled on... but I love my job and I love my students. But it is a shame that we live in a country where some people are born into oppurtunity and are allowed to pass judgement without knowing how the other half live.

Answer 3

Somebody has mentioned that teacher should be payed by their merits, ok then nobody would teach ESL classes (kids who don't speak English), Bilingual, Special Education... if you know that in tests only the GT class (gifted and talented) are going to pass 100%. Nobody would teach poor minorities, or difficult kids or kids whose parents don't care...

Is there any other job where 50 per cent of new teachers leave the profession in 3 years? They have an University Degree and they can be paid better anywhere, without the pressures of parents and administrators.


I received an email time ago saying that there was going to be a new reality show where some CEO would be sent to teach an average classroom with 27 students, 3 can't speak English, 2 with behavior problems, 6 with problems Reading,... the big prize is if they survive a month they can go back to their former jobs.. LOL.
THe question is, if you go into teaching for the money, you are making a mistake.
Teacher should be paid better and be given more means to do their job.
And if a students is disrruptive, removal of the classroom ASAP.

Answer 4

There are two types of teachers in the public school system: the valuable and the worthless. The valuable provide real benefits for their students by going beyond the textbook, integrating the lessons so that the students begin to truly understand the world around them. In contrast, the worthless simply recite textbook-copied lines and require the students to memorize them, not only boring the students, but also impeding their ability to think.

Unfortunately, the current system is designed to benefit the latter. Teachers' pays are often differentiated on seniority, not talent. Worse yet, teachers are all but guaranteed their paychecks, regardless of results; short of outright molestation, a teacher today can do nearly anything without fear of losing his job or tenure.

To improve teaching, we cannot merely raise salaries throughout the system. Instead, we should institute a new means of payment - one in which we trade value for value, and nothing for worthlessness.

P.S: the reason that teachers' salaries are so proportioned - with the talented underpaid and the talentless overpaid - is that the government pays them in money forcibly taken from taxpayers. Consequently, the people paying the bills have no power to withdraw payment from worthless teachers or to give more to valuable ones.

Answer 5

They are certainly not overpaid and it is a job I wouldn't or couldn't do even if I was paid a million a year.
Not all students do badly either.
I believe that there are two main attitudes towards going to school.
Some students go to school to be taught and some go to learn. Teachers should teach.
In England I belive that too much emphasis is put on the academic levels pupils should reach and more should be done for vocational training.
It's about time we realised that humans are individually unique. They do not all learn at the same rate, they are not all ready to learn between the age of 5 and 16, some don't have the ability to reach the standard set down inlaw but have vast talents in other fields. Some don't want to learn or become academics and, most importantly, we have to stop putting down those who don't have the ability or desire to get those "pieces of paper" they can put as much back into society as anyone and probably be of much more use than an accountant or a lawyer to society.
I left school early because of a family tragedy but after a couple of years of leaving I paid to take my GCE's and achieved grade 1's in all but one of my subjects. something I would have never done if i stayed on at school and guess what? it was much more interesting and much more fun too.

TAKE A LOOK AT THE STANDARD OF GRAMMAR AND SPELLING IN SOME OF THE ANSWERS HERE. THIS IS WHAT TEACHERS ARE UP AGAINST.

Answer 6

No, I saw a show on TV that interviewed the teachers and they make good money. They think they deserve more but NOT. If they deserved more money the kids in school would be doing better. If the teachers are so good then why are a high percentage of kids graduating from school and they cannot read. I would like to hear the explanation for that. All the teacher i know drive really nice cars. Not cheap ones either. They make enough money. Instead of complaining they need to pay attention to their class rooms. When you guys say their pay sucks you do not know how much they make do you? 20 20 told how much they made and it is good. It is a lot more than a lot of people make!!!!

Answer 7

Some teachers do nothing, but not most. Teachers spend their own money to buy books and supplies. They research projects and buy materials. They buy candy, stock a treasure chest and buy picnic food. Often, teachers purchase underwear and other "uniform" pieces for kids. And then they attempt to meet every national requirement, state requirement, district requirement, attend professional development and staff meetings(Most often this is no pay - and overtime? PLEASE!), draw up lesson plans, make copies, grade and record papers, call and maintain contact with parents, talk with social workers and counselors, and still smile and say good morning to their kids and MEAN it. I have to agree, there are many problems in our educational system, but blaming it on teachers, who are often pawns in a political game, is ridiculous. I realize I'm only basing this on what I have witnessed, but when I speak with others it sounds like the problems are far and wide. Teachers follow curriculum guides and nowadays must often use direct instruction programs that leave little leeway for any kind of creativity. If a teacher is doing nothing, I blame administrators, who should be on their case. Too often, however, I hear of administrators that berate their staff - they are also under pressure to meet test scores. You tell me, will a child with a 48 IQ read on grade level in the 10th grade? Is it wrong if they can't, but they have progressed throughout their school years? Should a teacher be blamed? What about the student that never brings homework in, goes home to an empty house and basically takes care of themselves? Is it the teacher's fault if the student fails because he/she isn't turning in work? Have you spent time in a classroom of students that have no respect for authority? Try teaching them, not just one class period, but every day, six hours a day, for 180+ days a year. Overpaid? Are you kidding? And no, I'm not a teacher, but I was, and would go back in a heartbeat if I could deal with kids rather than politics. It was that bad.

Answer 8

Ever had a first year teacher in school? Most of them are not very good. Treat teachers badly and you'll get a high turnover rate--new teachers all the time. That's what's usually going on in the schools were students are not performing up to standards. The politicians' answer is to fire the teachers at low-performing schools, but that almost always perpetuates the problem instead of solving it.

The reason you give teachers raises is to keep experienced teachers in the classroom and keep them from trading in the future of your children for the pay and respect they deserve and can get in the private sector.

Answer 9

Johnna, honey, do you have a job? The comment you made was slightly ridiculous. Of course people get pay raises to do their job. Usually it isn't a reward for doing it, it's simply the cost of living...it goes up out here in the real world!

If you think teachers are overpaid, spend a few days shadowing them and you'd see many of them spend countless hours AFTER work planning, grading, and conferencing.

Now, should they get raises when kids don't PERFORM? Well, nope, they shouldn't, but I do think the parents should have to pay up. More times than not these underachieving kids get little or no support from home. Parents don't require them to do their homework, let alone help them with it. Unfortunately, teachers aren't miracle workers. If parents (the ones who should care the MOST) don't care, then they really aren't underachieving are they? The US public education system needs a serious overhaul. And I majored in education because I wanted to make a difference in the life of a child, a difference in OUR future. Money certainly was not my motivation, but it does help feed MY kids! Yep, teachers ARE human. Imagine that.

Answer 10

Teachers should get a higher starting salary and not have to pay for learning tools and classroom basics, in return for more strict guidelines for becoming a teacher. There should be more requirements for people to become educators. Lawyers and doctors go to school for years and a certain level of intelligence is required to go into those fields, and those fields draw the more intelligent people because those careers demand intelligence and they are careers that will pay off. People who will shape the minds of tomorrow sometimes only need a 4 year degree or 2 years of graduate school (in addition to a bachelors degree in just about anything--my grad school accepted GPA's as low as a 2.0--- depending on state requirements) to go into teaching and some of the courses I took towards a masters in education involved singing songs, making paper mache animals, and construction paper crafts. You can imagine the caliber of my fellow students. The classes were never remotely challenging and only about 10% of us were actually interested in teaching children, everybody else was looking for an "easy" degree. Several people left my program when confronted with the pittance of a salary we could expect to make after paying for 2 years of graduate study. Smart people like to make a living. If you want smart people to teach your children, they're going to want to be equitably compensated.

Answer 11

Yes, children are doing extremely poorly - but that, in most cases, is because they are messing around and not paying attention to the teacher and doing their work. Many kids use school strictly for socialization - then, there are those who drink or drug before, during or after school.

Here in Arizona, many teachers leave within a couple of years for "higher" pay in Las Vegas (Vegas pays low - but about $10,000 more than here). There are good and bad teachers - but the children's attitudes makes it hard for any teacher.