It seems that everyone says a separation of church and state. Do you know where that came from?

Question

Thomas Jefferson was answering a Question put to him by a concerned church member.
TJ gave the answer that included this phrase.
In context, it states that the Government has NO BUSINESS interfering with CHURCH MATTERS!
NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!
As it is twistedly presented today, it is coming to the point that one may have a political view as long as it is not based on one's Christian belief.
This is wrong. No one can yell intolerence and try to quell another's view, no matter where it comes from!
Most people do not know that Christianity was a REQUIREMENT for public service in the early years of our great land!
The freedom of religion clause was written so that the government would not have a state religion, like England, and oppress those of other Chistian denominations
Tests were prohibited to see what 'brand' of christian one was. It was enough that the person claimed Cristianity.

History folks, the true, but no longer taught, history of the USA!


Don't shoot the messenger!

VOTE FOR INDEPENDANTS ( and independence) AND VOTE OUT INCUMBANTS IN '08
VOTE FOR ART HAGLUND IN '08
A healthy country, a constitutional government and better choice!

wbrian and uncle osbert, If you think that I am the one mistaken on my premise, I urge you to check out the ORIGINAL STATE constitutions of the original 13 colonies and the subsequently added states. You will find that
1. the founding fathers were involved in the consrtuction of THESE documents and therefore understood how to build them in accordence with the US constitution they just fought so hard to get ratified
2. because the original idea of the federal government was not the huge ugly monster that we now have, the states were set up to make their own laws that should nicely mesh one with another and the federal constitution. These STATE constitutions HAD the Christian requirement in THEM!!!!
FACTS that cannot be assailed!

Answer 1

from Liberals

Answer 2

How did I know you were going to be an @ss and start spouting off about this...

Guess what, no matter what things say back then, that was BACK THEN, when there were fewer people, a smaller mix in the "melting pot," and most people were not given any rights as human beings. And guess what! In order for people and societies to survive, they have to be able to change, advance, and adjust their laws and ways as the times change. While a lot of what was said and written back then has done good for the country, and while there is a good amount still able to do good, some things have no choice but to be adjusted to these times.

"...so that the government would not have a state religion...and oppress those of other Chistian denominations"

Only other Christian denominations? It can only ever be about Christians can it. Yup, guess it's your world, you own it, all others should move to some other planet. What a Nazi.

Answer 3

"Government has NO BUSINESS interfering with CHURCH MATTERS!
NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!"
Does this mean that the Church has business interfering with Government matters? I think not. The two do not belong together in a democracy. The wonderful thing about the United States of America is that it is ever evolving. Just because our forefathers may have gone to church does not mean that the current government needs to, or needs to tell me to.
FYI...
"The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."
- Abraham Lincoln, American president (1809-1865)

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
-James Madison, American president and political theorist (1751-1836)

"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it."
-John Adams, U.S. President, Founding Father of the United States

"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man."
-Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat

"I do not believe in the divinity of Christ, and there are many other of the postulates of the orthodox creed to which I cannot subscribe."
- William Howard Taft, U.S. President

Answer 4

1st amendment. Good story....but I disagree with you about "it's coming to the point that one may have a political view as long as it's not based on one's christian belief"

If you don't believe me....look into just how many elected representatives are "religious"

And imposing laws based souly on religioius belief is wrong. For example there are small communities in the south that want to abolish all laws and just have the ten commandments. Thats a bunch of crap. The constitution does not say freedom for the majority...it says freedom for all.

And it's great it was a REQUIREMENT for public service in the early years. Slavery was also legal. Women could not vote and had few rights. What they meant back then was freedom for everyone except indians and blacks and women.

History is great. Time to live in the now. Secular government works. If people don't like it there are wonderfull places where they include god in everything....Iran...Saudi Arabia....are a few places you could start.

Answer 5

If you can have freedom of religion why is everyone so anti freedom from religion?

Want to see America attacked from all quarters and become a smokin mess? Politicians who keep spouting Christianity are angering every other nation on the planet almost.

No one is saying Christians cannot be in government, the president or anybody else but common sense says they are elected to serve the people not their church. If they seem to serve only Christians then they automatically abandon half of Americas voting population.

Religion has caused more wars and killed more people than any other cause. Politics should be trying to stop this.

Christians and particularly American Christians seem to be becoming more and more dogmatic and dictatorial to others.

If you want peace in this world and the freedom of all to follow their religion or beliefs then religion must be kept out of government. Particularly the Christian religion.

Answer 6

Your entire premise is a falsehood. Jefferson himself was frequently accused of being an atheist. He openly questioned the divinity of Christ (as did Benjamin Franklin) and John Adams and every member of the Senate signed the Treaty of Tripoli which openly stated: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

For some decent reading on Jefferson, please read the quotations linked below.

Dominionists have no place in attempting to make this nation a Christian theocracy. By saying government cannot establish a religion, it means that government cannot espouse one religious belief over another nor can it enforce a religious belief upon those who do not wish to partake.

You are the one who fails to understand history.

Answer 7

His message--in context--was that it was not the place of the Congress or the Executive to do anything that might be misconstrued as the establishment of religion.

Establishment of religion. That has nothing to do with "interfering with church matters." It means the government cannot establish a state religion.

Regarding your "public service" requirement of Christianity:

John Adams and John Quincy Adams were Unitarians.
Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and James Monroe were deists.
Thomas Paine was a deist.
Benjamin Franklin was a deist.

Answer 8

freedom to be christian is not freedom of religion. why weren't they more specific if that is what it meant?

feel free to espouse christian inspired policies, but they should not be protected from criticism. arguing that your opinions are completely wrong is part of my freedom... maybe you should make sure your political views are defensible before you show them to people who are just going to show you how dumb they think you are. or point out where you have misunderstood something.

like this:

"In their letter to the President, the Danbury Baptists also affirmed that "Our Sentiments are uniformly on the side of Religious Liberty — That Religion is at all times and places a matter between God and individuals — That no man ought to suffer in name, person, or effects on account of his religious Opinions - That the legitimate Power of civil government extends no further than to punish the man who works ill to his neighbor..."

and that sounds like the baptists were writing the president because they were afraid of the chilling effect their local church (not baptist) was having on their first amendment rights. it sounds like the requirements you champion were the same ones they were complaining about. can i shoot the messenger when he lies? ;)

can i shoot the messenger when he changes the question he was asking? the state constitutions established state churches which the fed abolished because it is counter to our individual rights guaranteed by the us constitution. if you don't want to live in a union, fine. but that is what jefferson and the baptists fought for and gave to us; the right not to have to pay tithes to a state church you don't actually have faith in just cause you live in that state. the end. individual liberty wins again.

if you want to do that there are plenty of theocracies you can go live in. why do you live here if you hate america and her values so much?

Answer 9

Separation from Church and state was originally to mean that the governmnent could not interfere with religion... Liberals today think it means the other way around... that religion has no place in government (state).
That is how jacked up and twisted they are!

Answer 10

Thank you for bringing up history. Our founding fathers left England not because they where persecuted but to get away from "an unclean world". They were sponsored by rich nobility who expected a profit. My point being that this country was founded by religious fanatics and capitalist exploiters. Nothing has changed.

Answer 11

ART. VI . . . .The Legislature of the United States shall pass no law on the subject of religion, nor touching or abridging the liberty of the press [n]or shall the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus ever be suspended, except in case of rebellion or invasion. [U.S. Constitution]

You give the general population more credit than they deserve. Seems you answered your own question anyway.