Is it possible to have a motive that's driven from any other source besides God or Ego?

Question

Even with Altruism, if there is another source besides God or Ego what is it? I'm trying to determine if it's possible to leave God out and behave in an unselfish way using Ego, if not, then what's the source?

Answer 1

Well, some "force" does have to make the decisions.

So either you bind yourself to an "outside" source such as God (i.e., something Not You), or you make whatever decision you think is best according to what you consider to be "valid" criteria.

Wish I had more time to hone this (I haven't thought about it much before, but it's a great question), but maybe this jumble of thoughts will be useful to someone or spur on more conversation.

One poster mentioned survival instinct. I have trouble accepting persistent/prevalent altruism as merely a survival instinct. I don't think the survival instinct operates as a "long-term" strategy as much as a "short term" strategy meant to keep the organism alive right now, this very moment.

Short-term threats take precedence over long-term threats. They have to. It doesn't matter that the organism would reap future rewards if it cannot keep itself alive in the short-term.

Thus, short-term benefits tend to be favored unless the organism is in a "safe" environment, with not many or no clear immediate threats, and thus can spend more energy on long-term goals.

People can think and make "arbitrary" decisions that run against survival instinct, so it's a little more complicated with us than with basic organisms (which just tend to react).

So people can choose to be altruistic. In safe environments it's possible to "help others" as a self-beneficial strategy meant to reap yourself long-term rewards. [This is the "pay it forward" concept -- do good, and you'll get good in return.]

But altruism in an environment that is consistently threatening is another matter.

(Said another way, it's easy to be nice when you don't feel like your survival/fulfillment as a human being is at stake. It's much harder to give and think of others when you risk depletion or even death if you persist in giving.)

A human being is mortal and fated to die. So if you have no "outside source" to provide you life, you are as dead as a doorknob.

The survival/satisfaction instinct in that case tells you to survive and experience life as fully as you can. So all things are done with that in mind. Sometimes it could mean helping someone; sometimes it might not. But I think that's about as far as the Ego can go (while maintaining its intellectual integrity). Logically, it makes no sense to give when one realistically is facing loss or death.

This is where God (or some form of "higher moral power") usually comes into the picture.

The "God" motivation provides at least two encouragements: (1) usually God promises "life" at some level in the face of death, which allows people to risk themselves [this is more a self-centered motivation], and (2) God sets a moral example for people to follow, and because people have chosen to love God / their ideals, they choose to follow them even when hardship must be faced.


We could discuss altruism philosophically, but reality is what matters. What I have found in practice is that people who give altruistically when they are facing great risk by doing so are operating out of genuine goodwill -- because they have bound themselves to some sort of moral structure (God or otherwise).

If they don't have any higher values, at some point people can no longer justify altruism, even if there is a potential long-term payoff. They cut and run and maintain their own resources.

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It probably bears asking, too, where does the Ego get its ideals?
It either creates its own or it submits itself to external ideals.

As a rule of thumb, ideals that are easy to follow have been generated by the Ego; ideals that demand discipline and are painful sometimes to pursue are external ideals that the Ego wants to embrace, even if it is tempted to do otherwise.

So again, how far is the Ego willing to discipline itself in following ideals that it thinks are "right" but has trouble following naturally due to other impulses?

Usually the Ego on its own drops back more quickly into validating itself, while Ego harnessed to an external ideal / God is more willing to perservere.

Answer 2

I don't think survial instinct= ego. So instinct/survival would be the easy short answer. Genetic programming would be the more complex answer (but the same answer nonetheless).

Answer 3

I'm afraid that your question is based on outdated psychology.

Modern psychological theory doesn't involve much(if any) Freudian theory. Most of it isn't testable, and what actually is testable hasn't worked out very well.