In the end which of these 4 will save us, science, enlightened reason, religious faith or strategic cunning?

Question

Yes I’m aware that all of these contribute to making us who we are, for even the most callused atheist has faith in something*; the most zealous fanatic occasionally takes some comfort in scientific reasoning; the most contented and centered Tao master will eventually strike at where the bee stings and the most militant general will at some time look for the high road to a peaceful solution. What I’m interested in is what you think is the most important of these four aspects of who we are and why.


*Argue all you wish, but one of the definitions of faith is to have trust in ones beliefs. Isn’t atheism a belief? I’ve seen nothing about it that transcends that of one. Aaah- but that’s for future questions.

The Fisher King seems to be going in the right direction of what I was hoping you to see and possibly figure out. And the "in the end" referance is a metaphore of "after all has been said and done" or What do you think will save us from ourselves".

nursesr4evr: Yes ornery cussedness should have been included too. Lol.

Answer 1

The four contradict each other in so many ways that, combined, they will be the end of us.

Some people follow one belief, others follow another. History has shown that this, in itself, has been the root of all wars: one person disagrees with the views of another. And, in the end, did the wars over beliefs really change anything, other than kill off vast amounts of people?

It seems to me that the way to peace is to almost suspend dogmatic belief in one thing or another, to keep an open mind when you are confronted with something that seemingly goes against what you believe.

For example, if you're a scientist, consider that there might be an unexplainable (and possiblly supernatural) explanation for something; conversely, if you are inclined to believe that a Higher Being accounts for the existence of everything, consider that there may be a way to prove, empirically, that something exists thru natural or man-made creation.

Answer 2

Science combined with enlightened reason is the only thing that can save humanity now from the global environmental crisis that will devastate our planet in the next one hundred years. Religious faith and the belief that some supernatural agency will bail humanity out therefore humans need not worry is a large part of the problem, particularly in the US. Strategic cunning sounds like a good description of US foreign policy for the last sixty years; it would not appear likely that such cunning will be useful in slowing, halting, or reversing global warming.

Answer 3

someone mentioned that the end is the end, nothing will save you once its over. Thats a valid point, but I'm assuming you mean the end as in, "which one of these will save us after all the others fail"

You are not going to get consistent answers for this. I'm a relativist, so I believe truth is different for different people. Alot of religious people on this site are absolutists, they believe there is one truth and all other "truths" are false. Mostly every religious person is going to say god, since most religions believe in some end of days philosophy, which is basically a philosophy that preaches the world is going to end in a battle between good and evil, in which god will prevail and save us. Theres variations of that, but it all has the same idea. Being an atheist, I don't believe in a god, and hence, I don't believe god is going to save us. I believe people's faith in him is helping society greatly and always has, but I don't believe that in the end faith alone will protect us or save us.

As for enlightened reason, that helped us greatly. Science was practically born from it, But these days, science has taken over enlightened reason so its the least likely to ever save us. Maybe I'm thinking of a different enlightened reason then you, since I'm thinking of stuff from around the renassiance when people started doing experiments to test old truths and myths.

Science, on the other hand, is very broad. In the end, I think science will probably save us but also bring our destruction. Since science can include bombs and such, I fear science the most.

But in the destruction of the world, I don't fear strategic cunning. I fear a flaw in it. If we screw up in our strategic cunning, we'll kill off everyone. I think strategic cunning will also bring us to our end.

So how do i see everything in a nut shell?

Religion and enlightened reason: both helped greatly before but won't help us near the end

strategic cunning and science: both help us now and will help us until the end, when either one or both of them bring the end.

So my answer to you is? I guess none will help us most in the end. The two that i see helping us live until the end are ultimately what kills us.

Answer 4

it depends on what you mean by the end. If you mean the end of the world then probably religious faith. But if its like major war then science and strategic cunning would work. I have no clue when enlightened reasoning would help.

Answer 5

In the end there will be nothing to save you. You can't just expect to do something one time and have that be your "savior" it is what you do every day that counts, ie. helping people, giving to the poor, not ignoring those in need, being kind, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" "love thy Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind" "love thy neighbor as thyself" Nothing or no one thing can save you, it is a lifetime of things that will give you eternal life and it all begins with believing in God and having faith in him. And FYI man's definitions of words such as "faith" are not necessarily the definitions given by the one and only true God, read the bible(all of it) and you will understand what it means to really have faith and what you need to do to be "saved"

Answer 6

only reason could save us, because the others are by definition not reasonable, not sensible, not sane - thinking that belief is a virtue is the worst thing ever happened to humanity

if god is sane [assuming for the moment god exists], we come closest to god by striving to increase our rationality

re god's existence - the efforts to prove god's existence are in themselves proofs of the uncertainty of god's existence, or of our ignorance of god's existence

believing is not knowing, therefore believing is not knowledge, believing is ignorance, is pretend-knowing, is self-lying, conscious selfblinding - hardly a virtue - but who is strong enough to admit the rationality of this argument?

we are 98.4% identical to chimpanzees - our brains are 99% reptilian and mammalian, ie, subrational

reason would save us, but few can recognise it or realise how vital it is

there can only be reason and unreason - and most people do not strive to practice reason - they are not rational enough to know that reason is good and essential

all animals are more sensible than us - all animals are rational, humans have other stuff in their heads - all animals pursue their happiness, only humans do not pursue their happiness with full sanity and devotion -

some things that sanity would say if anyone had ears and respect for rationality:

everyone will readily agree that everyone will readily agree that, if a govt were to commit the injustice of taking 90% of income permanently off 90% of citizens, that would cause giant trouble and escalating violence [as both sides try to prevail] - and that all that trouble and social disturbance and millions of offshoot problems would cease as soon as the govt stopped committing that injustice

therefore everyone knows that the only solution to the social violence [war and crime, escalation of war and weaponry for the last 1000s of years] is removal of injustice

the injustice [the ceaseless automatic drift of wealth from earners to nonearners, the rich get richer etc] can be destroyed by limiting fortunes [as the founding fathers of the american dream of a a land of the free intended] to the maximum a person can truly earn and deserve [ie, put into the social pool of wealth by his work, create wealth by his work, US$2 million] and distributing the overfortune equally among all humans [everyone to open an account, govts and others agencies to arrange and finance setting up accounts, one per person of course]

99% are paid less than the average so would be keen to have the change, so a huge majority is [should be, in rationality] easy to get

rationality says that there has to be an effective counterbalance to the ceaseless unjust drift of wealth from poor to rich, from workers to nonworkers, from underpaid to overpaid - otherwise you get ever increasing inequality, overpay/underpay, ever increasing violence reaching extinction soon, thanks to e=mc2 [you cant go on getting closer to ww3 without arriving]

so simple! - only irrationality prevents this great happiness - the myriad mad ways people have of sabotaging happiness

there is enough income for every family in the world, working average hard, to have US$75,000 a year - and no violence - instead we are 'happy' with 1% getting 90% of world income [US$70 trillion a year] 90% getting 10th - 1000th of average hourly pay, 50 million a year starving to death amidst plenty, 99% being underpaid, pay up to a million times and down to a 1000th of average hourly pay

you cannot even get people to discuss the rationality or otherwise of this idea - something even blocks sane discussion

yet it is so simple - if you can pull up the honey from the pot to an unlimited level, there is little left in the pot, and there is violence proportional to the inequality - if you limit the height money can be pulled up from the pot, there is plenty in the pot, and no violence

'it is the obvious that is hardest to see' - aristotle

for ten years i have been putting this idea out and still not had a decent dispassionate intelligent objective scientific realistic rational discussion from anyone

Answer 7

None of the above. For they all are of man. God's grace will Save us and nothing else. For he loved us enough to send his only son to die and live again so that we may live. Trust in this it is truth.

Answer 8

Enlightened reason, for without reasoning applied to any of the other choices, the end result would not be rational.

Answer 9

All of these and many more except last one may "lead "to personal salvation, but not a panacea.....Problem that all of these making us of who we are...Notice, all of these is our own creation, it is not who we are, but our creations. So creations making creators? That heavy paradox is going on as long as humanity existing.
Only way out of it is hold on one belief directed within, not without. It is belief in yourself.Belief based on recognized quality of your own. So better to recognize them and believe in them in order to be your best in time of disaster and in time of relative peace, which still a disaster in remission. In that belief enlightment reside.

Answer 10

Only Science and Enlightened reason together will save us.
Science without enlightened reason may well destroy us.