What if I am right and there is a heaven and a hell?

Question

If I am right I win a wonderful vacation package that includes forever with God who is sweet and wonderful and loves the world enough that he chose to suffer himself to take the sin of the world off of everyone who ask him, If I am wrong there will be nothing I have lost and I have lived my life extremely pleased and even in my suffering I have had peace on earth and Joy. But what about if the non believer is wrong? What if there is a heaven and a hell. What if there is a devil who hates you and a Jesus who loves you and has tried to reach you with the truth about eternity before it is too late? Thats a *huge* gamble for the non believer.

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add on:
I have no doubt about heaven or hell. This was a prompting question to start a discussion. Thanks for your many (and colorful) answers. So everyone has a voice, and freedom of speech. That is fantastic. That is how it should be.
I do choose my freedom to speak of Jesus and his *love* for *all*. What Jesus did was the greatest act of LOVE not hate that some of you talk about. Jesus said "I come to the door and knock and if anyone should answer the door I will come in and dine with them and they with me". He said ANYONE.
And He also said, "All who call upon me in truth will be saved". No one who believes different is less important to him, just because you do not believe in him. Just the opposite. The unbeliever is MORE important to him, than the believer because he knows those who have chosen him already are safe, and wants to focas on the ones who have not yet gotten into the ark of safety, and COMPEL them to come in.

Answer 1

You're right. It is a huge gamble. So, let those of us who do believe pray for those who don't. Let us live our lives in such a way that they can see the LORD working through us. Let us plant seeds for God to nurture.

Answer 2

"What if there is a devil who hates you and a Jesus who loves you and has tried to reach you with the truth about eternity before it is too late?" And what if you are praying to the wrong god? And what if St Peter is gay and for gay marriage? And what if the bible, which was written by man, is all wrong?

" If I am wrong there will be nothing I have lost " Sure there is. You've lost time that you've devoted to the Lord rather than your family, your friends, and your life. You've possibly made other people's life a living hell with 'sinner this' and 'sinner that'. You've done nothing to help your children, your children's children, and their future generations, become better people because it's right, not because a god says so. You've given up much free will and free thought because you've spent so much time listening to the words of a man who thinks he knows god. You've changed the way that you view the world - and that may not be for the better. You've created a world that tomorrow doesn't matter because you thought you'd simply be in heaven.

Answer 3

THis question is alost identical to Descartes wager, and it boils down to: What do I have to lose?

Only the satisfaction of living life without a master, which is good enough for me.

But Descartes makes the same mistake you do:
there are a bizillion religions (over 4,500) many of which make the same claim, EG believe in us or die.
so your wager actually comes down to a 1 in 4,500 chance of winning forever after.
But does it really? God (yours) plainly says nothing you can do will guarantee your place in heaven. You can do everything you possibly can to kiss divine butt and not get in.
And if you do get in, then what?
do you have to kiss butt forever? that is what it says.
If, after a million years, you get tired of God, can you ignore him and do what you want? or will you be thrown into the lake of fire that god has made for unbelievers?
Yes, most people shine on the fact that it is GOD, not satan, that is torturing people for eternity. Nice guy. Think you would have enough of him after a million years? how about Two million? remember, Eternity is forever.
Do you beleive that once you were in heaven, God is so wonderful that you would never want to leave? that face-to-face, you couldn't possibly help but love him?
Then why not ask someone who used to work for him? like Satan, for example. Satan, and one-third of the angles, after knowing god like no human ever has, decided to risk all and split off. They knew the risks, they knew God in person, and yet ONE THIRD of them thought it was worth risking everything to get out from under him. Thats a HUGE percentage. I am not advocating that you worship Satan. He lost, and God now has twice as many angels as he does, so if you need to worship someone, might as well not be the loser.
Still, what is it about god that the bible doesn't say?
And you might ask yourself this:
Exactly what does god want you for? Does he really need that many sycophants? and if so, why? we are as ants to him. Do you need the praise of ants?
Maybe God has his reasons, but there is no guarantee that they are good reasons.
One thing we know for sure, God isn't telling us everything.

Answer 4

Why are other people's beliefs such a concern for you? Live and let live. Other older religions have a right to exist. Jews don't believe in Heaven or Hell and I doubt they try and convert anyone. I am happy that you are happy in your faith. But that is personal. Just as others beliefs are personal, not an opportunity for a debate.

And why is this in News/Events????

Answer 5

You ARE right. don't doubt that there isn't a heaven or hell, because the devil LOVES it when you doubt there is a heaven. If a non-believer or an atheist believes in the devil they are basically believing in God, because the Devil himself believes in God also. Have you ever thought about that??

Answer 6

What if the Budhists are right and what if Zoroastrians are ? What if you are supposed to worship rats and monkeys ? By your logic you should believe in all those things just to be safe. But this is straight up paganism and exactly in opposition to the word of the Almighty who abhors idol worship. Christianity and especially Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches are pagan cults of idol worship and so you're not simply gambling you directly pracing things which are contrary to the will of God. Thus if there is a hell you are certainly going there.

Answer 7

If your faith is simply based on what is better for you then I highly doubt that a creator would see that as the same thing as a true believer. Personally I think what really matters is living a good life because you couldn't do it any other way, or because it is the right thing to do. I don't believe that any father figure would send his children to eternal damnation for not believing in him enough.

Answer 8

If there is a God why did he create poop? Why did he make it so we are full of guts like animals? Why do we rot when we die? Why did he create people who are born with horrible disfiguring birth defects?

I am glad you are happy. Wish I was. But I won't spend my life worshiping some sicko god 'just in case'. I will lead a good life without religion and if your god makes me burn in hell while a horrible person who 'accepted God' goes to heaven I will laugh my burning *** off.

Answer 9

Your logic has huge gaps in it. For one thing, if one believes otherwise, and does not doubt this belief, then there is no "gamble."

Call me a person who likes life if you want, but I think it's a little twirly-eyed to regard death as a "vacation package." Not to mention the fact that if all I have to live for is the idea of a post-life "vacation," what's my incentive to remain in this world, and make anything of my time here? How can I make a positive contribution to this life and everything in it if my viewpoint begins with the negative idea that I'm just enduring it?

Next, if the devil hates us and Jesus loves us, then why is the devil and all he has to offer so accessible and Jesus so aloof:? You imply that Jesus is a little snobbish, caring only for "believers" to the exclusion of all else. This is inaccurate – Jesus spent most of his time with outcasts. But the most fun thing about your position is the passive-aggressive hatred and violence you direct towards people who do not believe what you do. Even if they are satisfied with their own beliefs, have faith, and gain spiritual strength from their own paths.

Have you really lived in peace on earth? You yourself are clearly full of doubts and fears, the worst of which is a feedback loop -- you fear your doubts, because you know what happens to those doubters who "gamble."

So rather than confronting them, you reconcile yourself by projecting these fears and doubts onto "non-believers." Now you can hate them and fear them and damn them to oblivion without getting your hands dirty. I think this view is not only neurotic but dangerous when carried to its extreme – and it does go there! Consider the folks who think their vacation package includes, in addition to "forever with a sweet God," a number of virgins to play with. Do they do anything to make the world better or do they rain as much death and destruction as possible on "nonbelievers" so they can get there sooner? And don’t cop out with “Islamic religious fanatics don’t count.” Religious fanatics are religious fanatics. Also, there have only been three acts of domestic terrorism in this country: the bombing of a family planning clinic and the murder of its doctor, David Koresh, and the Oklahoma City bombings, which were planned as a retaliation for the Waco massacre. All driven by this creepy project-hate-kill mechanism at the heart of just about all right-wing philosophy. Nice “peace on earth.” Thanks!

And why would I need someone to reach me with "truth" about eternity when it is clearly right there in front of my face? The North Star is 820 light years from earth. That means when you look up to see it right now, the light you are seeing began its journey when Charlemagne was just being crowned the first Holy Roman Emperor.

Incidentally, Baghdad was already 120 years old in 820. By contrast, Washington, DC is just over 210 years old today. I just threw that in to push your buttons some more.

There are stars visible with naked eye much farther away. You may look up and see light that began its journey when human beings were no more than animals.

That also means some light starting its journey now will reach us long after the human race, the planet its on, and the sun it orbits are long gone.

That is if you believe the bit about the earth being round and orbiting the sun. After all, it wasn’t until 1992 when the heaven and hell people got around to giving Galileo a pass for saying that.

Oh, wait, that’s not the “eternity” you’re talking about. You’re talking about the part where you die, and have to deal with the idea of loss of self. That’s what it’s about, isn’t it? Death is clearly not the issue, the issue is whether there will be any “you” when the inevitable comes. Because that’s what you care about most. You care about YOU and YOUR reward, and that’s what you’re in it for. That’s helpful, because it’s easier to hate the “nonbelievers” when you have no connection to them.

But that’s the mystery part. And the strength of any metaphysical perspective lies in how hard it van be pushed before it breaks down. It lies in the limits of what humankind can achieve through its own efforts. The most powerful thought a human being can have is “I don’t know.” That is the fuel behind human progress. It’s the strength of the human psyche and the power of human faith.

To turn away from it is the gamble, to simply invent an answer and say “I know and there is nothing else” flies in the face of millions of years of human achievement. There is always something else. Every answer brings a new question; every step forward opens a wider landscape of mystery and potential. It’s not about the answers we don’t yet have, it’s about the questions we can’t yet ask.

That brings me to my last point: so far the heaven and hell people have a pretty dismal record for being right about this sort of thing. Heaven and hell based clocks and calendars were useless for farming. That's why we don't use them. Heaven and hell based maps were useless for navigation. That's why we don't use them. Heaven and hell based ideas about the shape of the planet and what lies beyond were not even close.

In fact, the progress of Western civilization can be seen as a chronology of battles between the world and the heaven and hell people. When the world won, we moved forward. Science advanced, literacy expanded -- and even theology blossomed. We had Ptolemy, Galileo, Aristotle and Plato until the Byzantine Christians shut them down, the Renaissance … but when the heaven and hell people got their turn, there was stagnation, ignorance, violence, and tyranny. The Dark Ages, the Inquisition, the Crusades, witch hunts, terrorism, and the Bush Administration. Why? Because you’re not allowed to not know. Or to doubt. Or question. When they don’t know, instead of going to find out they just make something up – and they know you’ll buy it because you’re afraid not to.

So "what about if the non believer is wrong?' With this scorecard, I don't think it's a "huge" gamble.

Also, one preposition at the beginning of a prepositional phrase is enough.

Answer 10

You are so right. I agree 110% that there is a heaven and hell. If I were a non-beliver, I think I'd be afraid to take a chance like that.