If Evolution Is True, We're Just Animals. Why can't I kill, rape, and steal from whoever I please?

Question

I know the predictable evolutionist response already, but maybe someone will surprise me.

But my point is that if we are nothing more than animals, who is a "government" to tell me to abide by laws? Why am I accountable to anyone but the supposedly unguided process that made me, starting with lightning hitting some soupy mess and rocks? Why can't I, like any other animal, do as I please without repercussions?

Yes I know, there are repercussions. Like if an animal attacks a cub of a family of different animals, the family might attack it back. Fine. But they won't put that original attacking animal behind bars and sentence them. It's the old "survival of the fittest" right? Who's bigger and stronger, and best suited to survive.

(here's where liberals come with insults of how stupid this is, without giving any real answer and also attack this as "the best you creationists can do", when in fact it's not. It's just an entry level exercise in thinking, not a "winner" argument.)

You guys don't get it.. you're giving exactly the predictable responses I.... predicted... that you'd give.

Like telling me that "the cops will lock me up", etc. And that we exist at the level we do now because of our "conscience" and our desire to live in "safety"....

Well, let's not even get in to where we would have evolved a "conscience" (since even if such a "mutation" were possible, it wouldn't matter because it would need to happen simulatneously to a majority of a population).... None of that matters.

You evolutionists think we are just animals and you simply can't argue that we should be restrained by any laws other than the laws of nature (kill or be killed, dog eat dog, early bird gets the worm etc.)

Why should I care what is good for "society"? What if I were to claim that all my natural desires are in direct opposition to every law we have? Who are YOU to tell me (an Animal) that I can't fullfill my desires?

Randy hit the nail on the head, and I'm actually irritated with myself for forgetting to mention it, as it was one of my original points I meant to include...

If we evolved from natural processes, and the big bang and all that is true, and we aren't accountable to a God. No afterlife, etc. Why do I care what happens? Why not just run around the planet getting all the immediate grattification that I can until I'm killed?

Do you get what I'm saying more now?

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FOLKS PLEASE READ ENTIRE QUESTION WITH ANY ADDED DETAILS BEFORE ANSWERING
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Marilynne said:
"Humans have the ability to know right from wrong"

First, I appreciate your civility... it's more than one can usually expect out of the left....

As for that specifica line I quote from you... Who says what is "right and wrong"? To elaborate, see my previous added details...

Okay, you guys are still not reading the complete question, and added details. Either that or you're so blinded by your evolution dogma you can't look at this objectively.

Answerer "Skeptic" in particular said:
"I for one have a conscience."

Where did you get that conscience? Who's to say your conscience is the "right" one? Who decided what is right and wrong for you? Without God you aren't truly accountable to anyone, and this life is just about immediate gratification. Do whatever feels good until you die... Maybe your actions will get you killed, but who cares? Why live for 80 years obeying rules, when you could live for 20 breaking them and doing as you please?

As for your predictable response... Yes it was one. I don't have a desire to do all of the things I said.. I used an extreme example to catch attention. Instead of rape/murder/stealing, I could have said running around naked, or doing drugs or egging houses.

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Janewitk, I'm so glad you brought up ants and bees, in your defense of your Father Charlie and your God of Time.

Permalinks are a little sketchy at this site at the moment, so when you follow this first link, scroll up to the previous post, it's about ants. It's just one of many, but all I have to say is - evolve this:
http://creationsafaris.com/crev200606.htm#20060629a

And here's one about Bees... evolve that:
http://www.creationsafaris.com/crev200502.htm#amazing253

This are just two of the millions of examples that when looked at with an open mind, make one realize just how ridiculous evolution is. I'm not going to waste a lot of time explaining because you're all so blind anyway... but you evolution believers should consider how an unguided process of mutations could result in so many millions of features in millions of species that are necessary for their survival, and any intermediate versions would have spelled doom... especially when supposedly a whole population evol

*********** RON K***********

You're looking as dumb as these evolutionists with your reactionary answer, without reading my full question.

What you said though, is exactly what I'm trying to say, so please read completely my question (and now added details). Well, you're stating another "obvious" about the "can't get something from nothing", but we're drawing the same conclusions....

Please reread and direct your anger elsewhere.

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HEY "idiuss"!!! You might want to change your name to "idiot"... Read my reply to when another of your predictable colleges said the same thing.... Isn't it great to be a liberal who has nothing to contribute, so they turn to your sort of response?

Answer 1

This is a very good question. Your view point is correct. If all we are are animals - then where is the hope of anything to come after this life? If there is no God - where is the reason for living - death is the end of it all.

Lots of people believe this - that is why there is no respect for authority - I live in Memphis, TN - it is quickly becoming the crime capitol of the U.S. - The people here believe that crime is only a crime if you get caught.

Ask the evolutionist where the material came from to create the big bang theory - and ask them how living things came from non-living material. They think they have an answer - but it is plain and simple - you cannot create life from Non-living things.

Enough of my soap box - great question - I look forward to some of the answers.

Answer 2

Life is still a "survival of the fittest" environment. It is just not the tradional sense anymore. There was a time when you could rape, pillage, and murder at will. However, you had to ready to accept the consequences, and accept the fact that there would always be someone ready to try and usurp you. As intellegece grew and team work evolved this singular strength had to evolve as well. You had to not only be pysically fit enough to defend your position, but had to persuade others to have the same vision as you. As families grew into tribes and tribes grew into cities and cities grew into nations, the aspect of physical prowess diminished even more. The act of killing for pleasure or raping because you can scares the weak and thus became known as barbaric behavior, and a ruler(the fittest) has to keep his population(the weaker) happy if he wants to stay in his position. So has to make laws to reflect the wishes of the weak, thus ensureing his dominance. Examples of this, Napoleon, a short squat turd of a man with servere hemmoriods, but a good tactician, wins a few wars so people follow expecting greatness then when things go the other way, he's exiled. Marie Antoinette, Queen(fittest), does nothing to feed the weak and the simple phrase "let them eat cake" causes rebellion, now the weak are the strong and she's beheaded. Hitler, another little turd, but his speeches and policies brought strength and glory back to a decemated nation, until other strong men destroyed the little demon worshipping lunatic. Today the "strong" the "fittest" are the powerful, wether oil barons, computer giants, dictators or presidents. But the true power, the true strong are the people, and if the "strong" don't supplicate the masses, they don't stay strong for long.

Answer 3

I don't know why you care or what motivates you day to day. You will one day be dead, gone and nothing. After a few years, no-one will remember you even ever existed. You will be dust, and the dust will blow in the wind. Ranting here will not change that, nor will it make you right (you sound like an ayatollah). But you have clearly assembled a world view that helps you cope with this uncomfortable truth, even if it damages other people along the way (and boy, has Christianity damaged a lot of people over the centuries).

You certainly don't need to invoke a god to explain human social behaviour though. The science of economics is awefully good at predicting human behviour based on a simple premise - that we are selfish and act in our own self interest. Not very edifying in a religious sense I know, and not what you want to hear (so you will probably rant that you predicted this), but nonetheless accurate and true.

Answer 4

Who says animals can do things without reprecussions? Sometimes animals pick fights with each other, and they end up getting their butts kicked or even killed by the animal they are attacking.

There is also evidence among apes, where entire communities shun an individual for something they have done.

Humans are more complex, so its only logical that their behavior and reactions toward each other are more complex. An throwing some in jail is nothing more than a reaction to someone conduct, while a law is written definition of how to react to a given action by another.

Answer 5

Dear dumb ***,
I'm not into the spoken words or religions, who could possibly know who's right with all the various claims of history? I wasn't there and Lord knows people will tend to stretch a story to phenominon just to tell a good story.
But here's the thing. I am a guy based on physics, mathematics and psychology. Put it together correctly and you got an amazing comprehension of what the hell is really going on around here.
Break it down to the simplest equation with all you got in mathematics, physics and human psychology and there is one question. One question that no science or mathematics can solve.
HOW THE HELL CAN YOU GET SOMETHING FROM NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!! It is impossible!!!! There must be a beginning! I said there MUST be. This beginning is God. As however that existance exists you bet your *** only "God" has started it.
All of this, as we touch, as we sense, as we live, has a beginning; a creator if you will. That creator wishes us well and gives us LIFE. Do you enjoy it? I sure do. That creator is "God" I thank "God " every day.

Rape, steal if you wish. Our creator has ways to keep his creation going....and it doesn't include you if you continue destructive thoughts against "his"creations.

Answer 6

You can, and so can everyone else.

This is the lowest level answer of why society exists - at the lowest level, people behave because of the threat of social punishment. After all, try it and see how far you get... The cops will stop you. See recent events - Bosnia, Rwanda, Iraq when the USA dissolved the Iraqui police and army - to see how people behave when they think they can get away with it.

So what you are asking is - does all that metaphysical mumbo-jumbo about law, and justice and truth and fairness mean anything?

The short answer - who knows? Science basically says, if you can't devise an experiment to prove something, then it's not science. Social theories and religion have tried to provide guidance, or pretend that there are "higher reasons" for what we do or should do.

I thnk that most people have a certain amount of empathy - we "feel" for others. After all we are social or herd animals, and our survival depends on the rest surviving. At the very least, we want our mate(s) and offspring, and others who share our genes or might hlp us later, to survive too.

Why don't we just kill those who offend us? Well, society has "evolved" a system of measured response. You steal, I fine you or put you in jail. You kill someone, it's life in jail or death. This works as long as you can get some people to work as jailers and police, and somehow collect from others to pay for it. Basically, people want stability. They want to know some random fool isn't going to spring out of the bushes and murder them because he likes their Mercedes or wants to test his social theory.

Where do "morals" come into this? Well, it's the high-falutin; expression of the Golden Rule, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". While perhaps everyone would like to be the "aggressive killer animal" you describe, they also recognize that (a) there's always someone meaner and (b) there's always a bigger gang. Going it alone doesn't work; so you have to learn to get along with others.

So there you go. Is there really a "higher moral plane", or are morals just a tacit agreement by everyone to curb their base instincts in order to minimize the amount of fighting and killing they have to get involved in? I tend to favour the latter, but I do believe people have that "empathy" or feeling for others, that also controls cruelty in all but the most sadistic persons. I also think a lot of people are "sheep" and will do as they are told if they think it will keep them safe.

As for liberal morals, religious ethics, and idealisms (like Communism - look where that got people!) it is amazing the capability of people to fool themselves and to intimidate others.

Answer 7

We have evolved to use communication (often in the form of the teachings of many different religions) to transmit the moral lessons of our fore-bearers. Whether the teachings are true is a moot point. They have made a difference in our inter & and intrasocietal intercourse, for better or worse. The better is that most of us do not kill our fellow-man. The worse is that some of us do not consider as fellow-men those who were taught a different religion. It's certainly an on-going mechanism which will eventually decide the survival of our species.

So, nothing but words and thoughts and faith might keep you from doing bad things. In my opinion, you are not "...accountable to anyone but the supposedly unguided process that made..." you.

Answer 8

You have to go back to Rousseau and the social contract (though you could probably go back much farther).

I think too much focus toward evolution is on individual evolution, and not group evolution. If you really want to expand your horizon (and better understand evolution from a group rather than individual focus), try reading Howard Bloom's book Global Brain.

Clearly everyone is better off if we respect each other's right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. If we are all encouraged to rape, rob and murder, then no society would exist, we would all be animals living short, brutish lives. Kind of like Tasmanian devils. We certainly wouldn't be debating the point in this forum.

Answer 9

What do you mean you can't kill rape and steal from whoever you please? Are you asserting an incapacity on your part, or are you saying there's no reason for there to be consequences?

There's plenty of reason for there to be consequences regardless of the origin of the universe. It's not in your best interest to kill rape steal etc. nor is it in any ones best interest to encourage or ignore such behavior.

We are a species of social animals, we don't survive merely as individuals, but as a group. Harming another member of the group is equivalent to harming yourself.

Ah, the old "those d*mn commie pinko bleeding heart so-and-so's" perspective. You aren't interested in any opinion that doesn't agree with your own, stop pretending otherwise.

You are a political bigot, plain and simple, here's your sign.

Answer 10

No species on Earth kills, rapes, or steals just for the heck of it. Even insects, no less animals, work together as a community for the well-being and survival of the whole community. When necessary, they do kill. But, it is usually either to provide for the community or to protect themselves.

Go rent a DVD on ants or bees sometime. Your own evolution seems to be stuck at the bacteria stage.

Answer 11

Ever hear of Vikings? There are many examples of times in history when humans did exactly that without 'legal' reprocussions. But, as we've evolved (socially too) we established guidelines for basic human rights. Still, people like Hitler overlooked those basic rights and pushed his will, with help, onto others. Now we have terrorists doing the same thing.