When alphabetizing, why do most people put names that begin with Mc before Ma?

Question

McAultry comes before Mark on a bookshelf. Isn't it time to change that? Isn't that just antiquated?

Answer 1

Many phone books (though I think fewer than in the past) treat "Mc" and "Mac" as the same.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collation#Name.2FSurname_ordering

And such a rule is often suggested in other areas.
http://infofile.ca/filing_rules.php

It is my understanding that "Mc" and "Mac" were traditionally treated as equivalent in library shelving as well, simply because people easily confuse the two, so that combining helps people find what they want more easily (which seems a worthy goal).

As for Mache's answer, I'm not entirely sure of the point she is making. If she is simply saying something like "Mac/Mc" should follow "mab" (e.g., Mabury"), rather than be set apart at the beginning, that makes sense, but doesn't address the question of where Mac and Mc come in relation to EACH OTHER.

And now I've discovered that, according to the Anglo-American Cataloguing Rules version 2 (the standard that most libraries use for filing cards in the catalog, listing titles, authors, etc):
* Authors with last names beginning with Mc are filed as though the names were Mac.
http://www.libraryconcepts.com/faqs.htm#AA12A

Compare:
"When sorting by surname, it is standard practice in some fields (e.g. shelving books by author in libraries) to group all variations of the Scots Mc-/Mac- prefix together, since they are easily confused:"
http://everything2.com/index.pl?node=alphabetical%20order

The situation you describe fits this policy. And since people STILL confuse Mc and Mac names, the REASON for treating them as equivalent has not disappeared, hence is not "antiquated". Following strict alphabetical order is reasonable, but so is the traditional approach.

Answer 2

In asking "isn't that just antiquated?", you've probably hit the mark. Years ago when libraries used tab-cards to file their catalogue cards, there was a separate Mc tab-card, although I can't remember if it was traditionally placed before or after the M tab-card. I don't think Mc was viewed as a separate, unique character unto itself, apart from M, although it may have been by some. Rather, I think it was a labour-saving device of sorts. Rather than having to search for Ma titles interspersed with Mac and Mc authors, pulling these out and filing them by themselves shortened the time for an Ma search (and shortened the time for a Mac/Mc search too). But you're right, in this day and age of computerised files, it doesn't make sense, and in fact it probably isn't done that way. A new item is probably just entered and then the system automatically sorts it into the whole Ma-Mz database. When you run a search and your hits come up, you don't know (or need to know) where they came from (an Ma-Mz set vs. an M subset or a Mac-Mc subset).

Answer 3

Rules For Alphabetizing

Answer 4

Well, I don't know where you guys are from but in Canada (East coast, where there are many McDonald's and MacDonald's for example) we put it alphabetical order.
Ma
Mac
Mc
Ma comes before Mc

Answer 5

Alphabetizing Rules

Answer 6

The way I understand this peculiarity in an American filing system circa 1986, Mc and Mac were treated like unique letters that preceded the letter M in this filing fashion: Mac, Mc, and M. I always thought of that treatment as an ethnocentric racist perk groomed upon Americans by UK Americans who may have felt entitled to design what Americans think about filing because the language belongs uniquely to them before anyone who is not UK American.

Today, I am not so crazy about that ethnocentric entitlement because it is obviously stupid. If the Irish want to make the "A" in Mc an "understood" A, then they should be informed to understand that their name must take a backseat to correct filing. Mc appears after Mac for a concrete "a" comes before anything "understood".

Moreover, I suggest that filing be appropriate only to concrete letters of the alphabet. For example:
A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, P, Q, R, S, T, U, V, W, X, Y, Z.
I did not see any Mc or Mac letter of the alphabet in our American alphabet; however, I do see the unique characteristics of the Mc, pronounced, MICK and of the Mac, pronounced MACK.

I suggest that these two unique words be Anglo-Americanized for filing purposes as
M, Mac, and Mc.

No Irish person alive will pronounce his or her name "Mack" Donald; instead, that person would pronounce his or her name, "MICK" Donald to highlight the Irish heritage.

The Irish say MICK; the Scottish say MACK. That is how you can tell the difference between the ethnicities.

In America, the filing should reflect concrete letters, not understood, mysteriously absent letters of social equality and preferential treatment for there is none.
... M, M & M Heating and Cooling, MAC, Martinez, MC....

Answer 7

Some people separate the Mc's and Mac's from all the M books. That is their preference however incorrect. When I worked in our local library I spent weeks correcting this same situation. The prior librarian had decided to shelve her Mc and Mac before all the M's. Things are as they should be now. m

Answer 8

Not realy. The Mc Prefix is considered as one letter and one sound. It's part of a culture. Kind of like the O in O'Leery. I cannot tell you where the Mc originated but I can tell you that it is completely proper to place it before Mark.

Answer 9

Because Mc is short for Mac.

Answer 10

MC is short hand sor Mac like MC Donalds.