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I'm not thinking of the clitic -'s after nouns, but a true preserved relic of the Old English genitive case.
I would like to suggest that the expression Mondays (of a Monday), Tuesdays (of a Tuesday), afternoons (of an afternoon), is perhaps a true genitive case relic - although it's felt to be plural nowadays. Also, the Dutch cognate of the expression ('s Maandags, 's middags etc.) does infect decline for genitive case.
However, I don't know for sure the origin of the expression. Does anyone out there have any ideas?

[Example sentence: "I usually work afternoons" = to "I usually work of an afternoon" which seems to suggest that "afternoons" is actually declining for genitive case rather than inflecting for plural.]

2006-07-07 12:40:25 · 3 answers · asked by duprie37 2 in Education & Reference Words & Wordplay

I'm not thinking of the clitic -'s after nouns, nor of pronouns like whose, his, our etc. (anyway these are not relics), but a true preserved relic of the Old English genitive case.

I would like to suggest that the expression "Mondays", "Tuesdays", "afternoons", etc., as in e.g., "Mondays I watch the Simpsons" is perhaps a true genitive case relic - although it's felt to be plural nowadays.

Also, the Dutch cognate of the expression ('s Maandags, 's middags etc.) does decline for genitive case, it being an example of what I mean by "relic" (as Dutch has no really functional genitive case left).

However, I don't know for sure the origin of the expression. Does anyone out there have any ideas?

[Example sentence: "I usually work afternoons" = to "I usually work of an afternoon" which seems to suggest that "afternoons" is actually declining for genitive case rather than inflecting for plural.]

2006-07-07 17:08:53 · update #1

To put it another way: Is the "-s" on Monday in the expression "I work Mondays" originally a plural; or an adverbial genitive like "always" and "amids(t)" and "agains(t)"?

2006-07-07 20:03:56 · update #2

I've (finally) found the answer to this question:

"Adverbial Genitive"

Standard and apparently a relic of Old English, the adverbial genitive appears in idioms such as He goes to school days and works as a watchman nights. In earlier English, the adverbial genitives days and nights meant something like “of day,” “by day,” “of days,” or “in the daytime” and “of night,” “by night,” etc. Compare He studied physics and He studied nights. 1


The Columbia Guide to Standard American English. Copyright © 1993 Columbia University Press.

2006-07-07 20:07:08 · update #3

3 answers

A few remnants of the genitive case do remain in Modern English in a few pronouns as whose, the genitive form of who; likewise, my/mine, his/hers/its, our/ours, their/theirs. "Who" and "whom", "he" and "him", "she" and "her", etc. are remnants of both the old nominative versus accusative and also of nominative versus dative. In other words, "whom" serves as both the dative and accusative version of the nominative pronoun "who". In Old English as well as modern German and Icelandic as further examples, these cases had distinct pronouns. Despite the above, the English possessive did originate in a genitive case. In Old English, a common singular genitive ending was -es. The apostrophe in the modern possessive marker is in fact an indicator of the e that is "missing" from the Old English morphology.

2006-07-07 15:04:30 · answer #1 · answered by gpwarren98 3 · 0 0

I disagree with your analysis of "afternoons" as genitive, because it doesn't carry any possessive meaning. Even though the equivalent phrase can be "of an afternoon" (and that's a pretty rough equivalent), I doubt that "of" is always a marker of possession. It can probably be a number of things. In addition, I would argue that a better equivalent is "in the afternoon".

In addition, I'm not sure why you say that the genitive "s" is a clitic. Clitics usually go along with verbs, not noun phrases like the genitive "s" does.

I have never really consdered your big question whether there is any genitive case left in English. I think you can find some in the derivation of the so-called possessive pronouns, such as "his", which originally came from he+genitive s. However, I don't think his is still made of two morphemes. Hmmm...

2006-07-07 18:35:22 · answer #2 · answered by drshorty 7 · 0 0

Well, when we talk about weddings, we still say "Father of the Bride" rather than "The Bride's Father".

We also still use "The hair of the dog that bit you" rather than "The dog's hair that bit you."

Or how about the Classic Movie Title? Planet of the Apes just wouldn't sound right as The Ape's Planet...

The morning's top to you! Ha Ha...(Top of the morning to you!)

Although I suppose these are all pretty old sayings...they don't really fit in as "modern English"...

How about "You should check out the heart of downtown! It's booming!" (rather than "You should check out downtown's heart!")

And I'm not really sure where your expression originates from...sorry.

2006-07-07 15:05:23 · answer #3 · answered by Beck 4 · 0 0

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