wht did the socratic philosophers win against the sophists?

Question

Typo: Wht\Why

Answer 1

The reason that the Socratic approach "won" is because of the goal of that approach. Socrates was searching for truth and knowledge. He wasn't so concerned as to whether his preconceived notions were right--it wasn't a pride issue. In fact, if we believe what he said in his defense when being tried, his whole point was to prove that he didn't know as much as others.

The Sophists, on the other hand, were not about truth at all. Their goal was simply to "prove" whatever it was that they were assigned to prove. I've always thought it interesting that some of the debate competitions that students do in high school have them practicing sophistry rather than using the Socratic method. Why would we want to teach them that?

The answer to your question lies in the foundation/purpose behind each. The sophists simply seek to win an argument. They don't care whether they are saying the truth, or whether they are fabricating a lie as they go. Their only goal is to win--at any cost. The Socratic method seeks truth, which is infinitely more valuable.

Answer 2

But Socrates was convicted of being a sophist. And if sophists can argue that black is white and white is black, it means they're better able, ultimately, to find the properly balanced shade of grey. It's and adversarial philosophy that we've based are justice system on. If a disinterested spector watches two sophists argue opposites sides of question, the sophists arguing as hard as they can for their own point, regardless of the truth, won't the disinterested bystander, like a jury, be in a good position to judge the truth of the matter? Did the Socratic philosophers win against the sophists? Who declared the winner?

Also, if Socratic Philosophers won (and we'll take Plato as the "ideal form" of a Socratic philosopher), how come the U.S. is trying to export Democracy? Why does democracy have a good reputation. After all, Plato was patently anti-democratic.

Answer 3

they won the rhetorical war and preserved their foundations in the power they derived by excluding their peers.

they 'convinced' alot of rosy-cheeked eunuchs to follow them into their temple of virtue, purity, and denuncation of this world.

But they lost philosophy. Philosophy as "footnotes to Plato" is a total dogmatic mess that needs to get re-organized still.


*** tdw you don't have a clue.
Let me inform you.
Socrates believed in more than nothing, vis.: reincarnation, the realm of Pure Forms beyond this world of appearances, a daimon on his shoulder telling him right from wrong, he was a follower of Parmenides, and had the leisure to be able not to be paid for his sophistry. The way Plato wrote him, it's obviously after-the-fact aggrandizement, he would use logical arguments against the "sophist".. bringing about contradictions. All of them are fallacies of some sort, most commonly red herring and straw men. WHY was he trying to make contradictions? so that he could gain power and prestige over people. And advance HIS views which aren't at all logical, but insane religious assumptions based on faith.

What kind of stupid argument is "the sophists were paid, Socrates wasn't therefore-- Socrates is closer to the truth"?

The truth is Socrates was closer to Death than anything else, and came to hate his decaying body, and idealized a world he made up to make the transition very comfortable for himself. He chose death in the end. He committed suicide.

He was an annoying, zealous, SOB who happened to have a biographer following around from dinner party to dinner party. Did he corrupt the youth? YES. Was he impious? YES.

The whole logic of Socrates is advanced by a huge disjunction elimination. To think that Socrates was in no way "rhetorical" is a ridiculous lie. He may have been more careful, hiding his "bias" but that doesn't make him "right". What makes him "right" is the fact that Christianity has put platonism at the core of their metaphysics. So the "western" world gets taught Socrates without even knowing it--- and it all seems like such a revelation when we "discover" how "true" Socrates is! As if it was already in our minds from birth! And all we need is the socratic method to draw it out! Of course!

Answer 4

because sophists have a preconceived answer to a question, dilemma... while a socratic thinker searches for the truth by analyzing the problem

Answer 5

Have you read 'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance'? Pirsig has a nice discussion of sophists vs philosophers in it.

Answer 6

They won trips to Disney.