What do you think of these quotes from a worthless liberal?

Question

"A government of reason is better than one of force." --Thomas Jefferson to Richard Rush, 1820. ME 15:284

"I am not myself apt to be alarmed at innovations recommended by reason. That dread belongs to those whose interests or prejudices shrink from the advance of truth and science." --Thomas Jefferson to John Manners, 1814. ME 14:103

"What an effort... of bigotry in politics and religion have we gone through! The barbarians really flattered themselves they should be able to bring back the times of Vandalism, when ignorance put everything into the hands of power and priestcraft. All advances in science were proscribed as innovations. They pretended to praise and encourage education, but it was to be the education of our ancestors. We were to look backwards, not forwards, for improvement." --Thomas Jefferson to Joseph Priestley, 1801. ME 10:228

"Ignorance and bigotry, like other insanities, are incapable of self-government." --Thomas Jefferson to Lafayette, 1817. ME 15:116

i suppose now you'll tell me how Dubya knows better than Jefferson, huh?

Did you know that Jefferson was an atheist?

Answer 1

I love em, Thomas Jefferson was a true patriot, now look at what we have running our country! Only NEOCONS are pleased about it, makes one think if they're mentally stable.

Answer 2

My friend, HE was in no way a liberal of today

Jefferson was a Classical liberal. That is much different than a liberal of to day. A political philosopher who promoted classical liberalism, republicanism, and the separation of church and state, he was the author of the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom (1779, 1786), which was the basis of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment of the United States Constitution.

Classical liberalism is a political philosophy that supports individual rights as pre-existing the state, a government that exists to protect those moral rights, ensured by a constitution that protects individual autonomy from other individuals and governmental power, private property, and a laissez-faire economic policy.It is seen as being the natural ideology of the industrial revolution and its subsequent capitalist system..

Republicanism is the ideology of governing a nation as a republic. A republic is a state in which sovereignty is invested in the people, rather than in a hereditary elite.


A liberal of today wants Socialism.

Socialism refers to a broad array of doctrines or political movements that envisage a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to social control or the goverment.

This would be out side any thing Mr Jefferson wanted or work for.

Answer 3

These people are killing me! Someone says that Jefferson who had his penis everywhere would not stand for abortion? Bet ME! Some guy says Jefferson was the first to separate church and state or else, and tries to lecture on social liberalism? All week all I've heard from his brethren (Hannity, Savage, Bush et al) is that the seperation of Church and State came from a Russian doctrine that has never been included in our constitution! Not in any amendments. These people are so quick to ridicule the "left" yet again I ask ANYONE to tell me what is better about the US now because of President Bush? I can tell you a whole lot things that are worse starting with 2600 dead soldiers

Answer 4

Strictly speaking, conservative and liberal are defined by the status quo. In a muslim regime, Michael Savage would be considered a liberal. So, you can't compare historical figures based on their labels at the time. Lincoln was a Republican, yet ideas were largely progressive for the time. I believe that if Jefferson were alive today, he would be something like a Libertarian. Only a simpleton would believe he would be a modern day liberal/Democrat. He believed very strongly in personal responsibility and humans controlling their own destiny. Today's libs/Dems push for a nanny state where everyone is looked out for. And of course liberals are scared to death of any use of force. Jefferson speaheaded a bloody revolution. The intellectual elite of his day understood that force, while not a first choice must be available as an option. Now I have read enough of your crap on here to know that you are illuding to out actions in Iraq. We tried reason with that turd since 1990. Talk, intellectual hand-wringing, and coddling, at some point must fall away and men of action be allowed to lead. You should be ashamed of yourself for trying to tie Jefferson to today's liberal/socialist movement. It is disgusting.

Answer 5

That's all well and good, but Jefferson wasn't a liberal. At least, not in the sense that we understand. Thomas Jefferson was, among other things, a slave owner. How "liberal" was that?

Answer 6

I feel the same as you! As one of the founding fathers of our country he was vocalizing what was believed at that time and what was part of our founding fathers thoughts on this new country and what we should stand for. After all , Ben Franklin was a scientist. Pres. Carter was a Southern Baptist and very religious but quietly so. He was and is a Christian by example. GWB and the people he panders to, are not Christians they are the Pharisees that Jesus threw out of the temple. And we need to throw them out of power. Maybe we are better off with an atheist as they tend to be thinkers and not followers.

Answer 7

Who ever said Bush knows better than Jefferson. I would be willing to bet, however, that if Jefferson was alive today, he wouldn't support the "liberal" causes like abortion, socialism, etc.

Answer 8

Ok--I have to voice my very humble opinion--are you ready?

Hello, world, here's the song that we’re singin’
C’mon get happy!
A whole lot of lovin’ is what we’ll be bringin’
We’ll make you happy!

We had a dream, we’d go travelin’ together,
We’d spread a little lovin’ then we’d keep movin’ on.
Somethin’ always happens whenever we’re together
We get a happy feelin’ when we’re singing a song.

Trav’lin’ along there’s a song that we’re singin’
C’mon get happy!
A Whole lot of lovin’ is what we’ll be bringin’
We’ll make you happy!

Answer 9

Those who can comprehend Jefferson's words will agree with them; those who can't will call him a "commie."

Answer 10

I apologize for the length of my answer, but be assured that it is, if anything, short for the question.

As others here have stated, implying a connection of today’s definition of Liberalism to a Liberalism in the time of the Founders is neither possible nor logical. Liberalism and Conservatism had quite different meanings in the years of the Founders than is accepted in our times.

May I suggest that when quoting those of another time, it helps to do so in the contexts of their time, their words, as opposed to selective quoting to relate to our time.

Some thoughts on your quotes:

To Dr. Priestley 21 March 1801.
Although we can certainly imply additional meaning and application of T. Jefferson’s words, they were intended to address attacks on Dr. Priestley and his scientific works and opinions. To continue the quote from where you left off:

“the President himself declaring, in one of his answers to addresses, that we were never to expect to go beyond them in real science. This was the real ground of all the attacks on you. Those who live by mystery & charlatanerie, fearing you would render them useless by simplifying the Christian philosophy, -- the most sublime & benevolent, but most perverted system that ever shone on man, -- endeavored to crush your well-earnt & well-deserved fame. But it was the Lilliputians upon Gulliver. Our countrymen have recovered from the alarm into which art & industry had thrown them; science & honesty are replaced on their high ground; and you, my dear Sir, as their great apostle, are on it's pinnacle. It is with heartfelt satisfaction that, in the first moments of my public action, I can hail you with welcome to our land, tender to you the homage of it's respect & esteem, cover you under the protection of those laws which were made for the wise and good like you, and disdain the legitimacy of that libel on legislation, which under the form of a law, was for some time placed among them. “

February 22, 1814
To Dr. John Manners Monticello

The subject and focus of this letter is “on the comparative merits of the different methods of classification adopted by different writers on Natural History.” As with the previous letter he T. Jefferson is addressing scientific discourse and only tangentially does it have anything to do with politics or government. The paragraph in which the quote is found states in full, “In what I have said on the method of classing, I have not at all meant to insinuate that that of Linnaeus is intrinsically preferable to those of Blumenbach and Cuvier. I adhere to the Linnean because it is sufficient as a ground-work, admits of supplementary insertions as new productions are discovered, and mainly because it has got into so general use that it will not be easy to displace it, and still less to find another which shall have the same singular fortune of obtaining the general consent. During the attempt we shall become unintelligible to one another, and science will be really retarded by efforts to advance it made by its most favorite sons. I am not myself apt to be alarmed at innovations recommended by reason. That dread belongs to those whose interests or prejudices shrink from the advance of truth and science. My reluctance is to give up an universal language of which we are in possession, without an assurnace of general consent to receive another. And the higher the character of the authors recommending it, and the more excellent what they offer, the greater the danger of producing schism.” I’m sure that you will agree this fuller context results in a different understanding of T. Jefferson’s intent.

May 4, 1817
To Lafayette Monticello
This was not in reference to the United States but rather to the Spanish colonies in the Americas in the process of gaining their freedom. The full paragraph of the quote, again, produces a very different picture of T. Jefferson’s opining of events. “I wish I could give better hopes of our southern brethren. The achievement of their independence of Spain is no longer a question. But it is a very serious one, what will then become of them? Ignorance and bigotry, like other insanities, are incapable of self-government. They will fall under military despotism, and become the murderous tools of the ambition of their respective Bonapartes; and whether this will be for their greater happiness, the rule of one only has taught you to judge. No one, I hope, can doubt my wish to see them and all mankind exercising self-government, and capable of exercising it. But the question is not what we wish, but what is practicable? As their sincere friend and brother then, I do believe the best thing for them, would be for themselves to come to an accord with Spain, under the guarantee of France, Russia, Holland, and the United States, allowing to Spain a nominal supremacy, with authority only to keep the peace among them, leaving them otherwise all the powers of self-government, until their experience in them, their emancipation from their priests, and advancement in information, shall prepare them for complete independence. I exclude England from this confederacy, because her selfish principles render her incapable of honorable patronage or disinterested co-operation; unless, indeed, what seems now probable, a revolution should restore to her an honest government, one which will permit the world to live in peace. Portugal, grasping at an extension of her dominion in the south, has lost her great northern province of Pernambuco, and I shall not wonder if Brazil should revolt in mass, and send their royal family back to Portugal. Brazil is more populous, more wealthy, more energetic, and as wise as Portugal. I have been insensibly led, my dear friend, while writing to you, to indulge in that line of sentiment in which we have been always associated, forgetting that these are matters not belonging to my time. Not so with you, who have still many years to be a spectator of these events.”

Your fourth quote: "A government of reason is better than one of force." --Thomas Jefferson to Richard Rush, 1820, I can find no reference in my several sources. At best I find a letter from T. Jefferson to Richard Rush in 1821 and in it there is no such quote. So I can make no comment on it.

For your information Thomas Jefferson was a Deist, I’m the Atheist.