Paradox of freewill vs. omnipotence...part II?

Question

OK let me make this more clear. If an omnipotent being creates something and knows what it will do before he even creates it, then he has in effect done it all himself, so the concept of true "free will" is not really valid. Get it??

Answer 1

I agree. That is one of the major flaws in any philosophy which tries to claim both a supreme, all powerful creator which knows us even before we are born and then tries to claim we are responsible since we have free will. You just can't have it both ways. Ultimately, the supreme, all powerful creator who intentionally permits a flawed creation must be responsible. The creation has no choice but to be what it is and where it is.

I don't subscribe to that philosophy for that very reason because I do believe we have the ability to make choices. I believe we choose which forks in the road to take and it is not predestined. So, to that extent, we have free will.
It appears, however, that there are many choices which many aren't even allowed to get up to bat for. That still puzzles me some.
I believe that God set up the basic systems and then lets things evolve as they will. Like the water cycle. Once set up, evaporation, clouds, rain, snow, run off, Etc. all occur without any direct "hand of God". I think that is the way to look at virtually everything.
Either that or you must wonder if God isn't terribly cruel to create Smallpox, Bubonic Plague, AIDS, Cancer, Terrorists, Dictators, child molesters, gang violence and on and on generation after generation. Or the other alternative - there is no God. All the complex systems just happened by chance. That is pretty hard to accept.

Answer 2

If by "true" free will you mean that a person is free to determine their life and the choices they will have to make, you are correct in saying that there is no free will of that type here on earth.

It's like if you have some fish in a fish tank at your house. They are free to swim within the confines of that tank but they will only receive food when you provide it, they will not encounter any other fish other than the ones you put in the tank, they can't set the temperature to what they might prefer, etc...

Also, it's like if you were playing chess and your opponent could not only know how you would respond to every move he made but he could also visualize the entire game from beginning to end. And so while you would be free to reach out and move the pieces wherever you wanted to, every move that you made would have already been planned by your opponent so that even though he wasn't directly in control of you, if you were a marionette with strings directing your moves they would be the same as the ones you "chose" to make.

But that doesn't negate that you actually do make choices for which you are responsible. Somehow the God who set the planets in orbit around the stars and the electrons in orbit around the protons and who knows every hair on each individuals head is causing all things to work out according to his overall will for his creation.

That doesn't mean that it is in His will for people to sin, it just means that in a plan that is so far beyond our comprehension that it's like an ant trying to understand the design of a nuclear reactor, He has made allowances for all of the bad things that happen here on earth.

Answer 3

I think free will and omnipotence are two different things. But I think your real question is on free will.

This is how I view free will: You have a being that can span time. Time has no meaning to it. What happens is the being can view what you have done over your life time and write a history of your life. For example, you born on this date, walked for the first time on this date, graduated high school on this date,... and died on this date. From the other perspective, the "being" writes a book about what you are going to do all your life and you will do it on those specific times. I view it as one is a history book and the other a will do book. I think this is where the confusion lies. Hope this helps!

Answer 4

using human logic to try and uncover the mysteries of the Creator is futile, however, let me say this. Do you not think that if a being was powerful enought to create the universe and everything in it, including humans, that he could not give them free will? While it is true that the concept of free will and the concept of a God that knows all seem to contradict one another, it is, in fact the exact opposite. If there exists a being capable of doing this, then why would you assume that his power is limited by the rules of logic? Quoting the Bible, "His ways are above the ways of man."

Answer 5

To rationalize "free will" in your question can't be done since it's based on a faulty premise, ie, the existence of an omnipotent being.

The answer above me sounds more logical...everything happened by chance with no pre-ordained plan. Yes, its hard to accept, but its the objective reality and the belief in the 'omnipotent' one provides the opiate to the masses to keep them from being depressed.

Answer 6

I get it,,, except for one thing. This all-powerful deity creates a being that has the "potential" of "arising", by which I mean that the being that was created has the ability to become self-aware and once the being analyzes his predicament, that is, observes his complete lack of will, ability to do, and so forth, THEN this very realization once it is fully and completely incorporated into this being's consciousness, becomes the springboard for the being to arise and become something else, something of his own creation, and as the bible might say, "become like one of the eternal beings who live in Paradise, immortal, with power and glory as part of their eternal being-essence." (I paraphrase from the garden of Eden story, obviously). So to answer your seeming paradox, it is only a paradox for those who never arise, in fact the illusion of free-will is what keeps most of them in their unarisen being-prisons where they all die meaningless deaths, unfortunately. God put us in predictable boxes, but He expects us to climb out!

Answer 7

Look at it this way HYpoethically
lets say we create a virtual universe.. with a big bang
we'll program it so that the pro gram evolves by it self slowy..which leads to the creation of man...just a free program.. we just watch...so its all up to the program how it evolves....n the world is a free runnin system...there may be coincedence...but no fate unless we want to intervene

Answer 8

John Milton addressed this issue hundreds of years ago in Paradise Lost. Omniscient knowledge does not eliminate Free Will. Milton presents a God who knows his creation will disappoint Him before He creates it. This causes God immense pain, but He still chooses to give life to mankind. It is also important that Milton’s Son volunteers to save Man before he is ever created.

The point? God allows us Free Will because our loyalty and devotion is meaningless unless it is tested. If we were never tempted by evil, we would never really understand the true glory of God. Moreover, we would never learn to appreciate his acceptance and forgiveness, which surely must be part of our mortal lives.

According to Milton, God could have chosen to “zap” Mankind before we were ever created. He weighed the odds, and decided to give us a chance. My little brother summed it up well, when he read part of Paradise Lost and remarked, “Man, it must be tough to be God!” Yes, it is. It is tough to be a parent. We all know about the horrid teenage years when our children will disgrace us and test our love and patience. We still choose to have them, though.

Answer 9

The position you are arguing against is called "compatibilism".[1]
The idea was suggested by David Hume that the world may be deterministic and people will have free will at the same time.
In this case free will should not be understood as "ability to do otherwise" but as "ability to act on your desires".

Indeed if you are action did not depend on your character -- would not your action be random rather then "free"?

So environment and your charcter determine your desires and you are free to put them in action, is not this "free will" enough?
And it is compatible with any kind of determinism -- be it scientific or God based.

Answer 10

Even if it knows what it will do It does not necessarily mean that it is controlling it which means it is controlling itself which is free will.
I know my dog is going to eat if it is hungry but it is up to my dog to go to his bowl and eat when he wants to and how much he wants to "free will" . God may now what choice I am going to make good or bad but it is still my choice to make.