whats the grammatical explaination for these two sentences. "would it be ok if I (borrowed-borrow) your tent?"

Question

So heres the deal, whats the story between borrowed and borrow? Both of them are grammatically correct, why? when do you use one over the other, and why? what are the tenses and rules behind this verb conjigation?

A high level student asked me this question, and even though I'm a teacher I dont know the answer to this one.

Answer 1

Simple answer: if you're going to begin with "Would it be OK" you must say "borrowed" NOT "borrow".

BUT the issue is NOT the tense!


So far all the answers try to focus on TENSE -- whether it should be "past" or "present". In fact, your confusion is NOT so much about the verb's tense as about its "MOOD".

Most of the time we use the "indicative" mood. But special cases of wishes and hypotheticals, even 'contrary-to-fact' situations the proper mood to use is the "subjunctive". Use of "would" or "should" is a common tip-off that subjunctive may be in order.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_mood


Quickly, one of the key uses of the subjuctive forms is in statements such as the following:

"If I WERE a rich man. . . I wouldn't have to work hard. . . " (Tevya sings in *Fiddler on the Roof*)

Of course the "were" LOOKS like a past tense form, so people think that's what it is, and they end up saying (incorrectly) "If I was. . . ." But notice that Tekya is NOT talking about the PAST at all! He's suggesting that it wouldn't be such a horrible thing if God were [another subunctive] to make him wealthy NOW!

Incidentally, if Tevya were dying and wished to speak about the past, the proper form would be "If I HAD BEEN a rich man".

Also note that it is common and proper to place the verb at the beginning in these constructions. Thus, he could have said,
"WERE I a rich man. . . "

Finally, note that subjunctives for most verbs TYPICALLY look like past tense forms.

----------------------------

So, applying this to your sentences --
(beginning in each case with CORRECT constructions)

a) "Will it be OK if I borrow your tent?"// "Is it OK if I borrow your tent?"

In this case you use simple present indicatives because the "if" does not introduce a 'contrary-to-fact' situation. But note that while there are situations where this is the form you would want, it's unlikely with the question you are considering. (That is, if you want to be precise in your meaning. In real life people WILL ask "Will it be...?" when their meaning woul more properly be conveyed by "Would it be...?")

b) "Would it be OK if I BORROWED your tent?" // "Would it be OK if I WERE to borrow your tent?"

Now, your question here is NOT about the past -- you're asking a hypothetical question about the present or future (that is, would it be OK *NOW* or *AT ANY TIME*). So what you need is the subjunctive form -- to match the subjunctive "would be" that you started out with. As noted above, this form typically LOOKS the same as the past tense.

(For this reason it is usually CALLED "past subjunctive". This may be confusing, but it does NOT mean that it is talking about the past. It is simply called that because the FORM usedt LOOKS like the past tense [indicative] form.)

Thus "if I borrow" is WRONG here NOT because your sentence is in the past tense -- it is not-- but because it is in the subjunctive MOOD, which takes a different form from the indicative. (I know many would use it --just as they would say "If I was a rich man"-- but they would be wrong!)

c) "Would it have been OK, if I HAD borrowed your tent?" [or the cumbersome "if I were to have borrowed..." !]

This is how you would ask a contrary-to-fact question about the PAST. (The form itself is called "the pluperfect subjunctive", based again on what the form LOOKS like, NOT on the tense of the ACTION.)


SUMMARY:
To speak about the present
**present indicative: I am, I borrow
**'past' subjunctive: (if) I were, (if) I borrowed [OR 'were I', 'were I to borrow']

To speak about the past
**past indicative: I was, I borrowed
**'pluperfect' subjuctive: (if) I had been [had I been], (if) I had borrowed [were to have borrowed]

Answer 2

borrowed is past tense but in the sense of "Would it be ok if I borrowed your tent" your techniqually asking when all is said and done is it ok if your tent was borrowed by me. Which is grammatically correct. The question "Is it ok if I borrow your tent?" is also grammatically correct because your asking right now, is it ok to borrow the tent.


All of these other people gave you horrible answers. They don't realize that BOTH ARE GRAMMATICALLY CORRECT and your only wondering why. Read into my answer and you'll understand. People shouldn't answer questions if they don't know them.

Answer 3

If I borrow and borrowed are teh present and past tenses of the verb. Often in English we interchange the tenses with some verbs. For example "would it be OK if I walk / walked with you, skate/skated, etc. I guess the reasoning would be that although you do the action in the present, the moment the action is underway, you refer to it in the past.

Answer 4

Borrow, present tense, would be grammatically correct for the question. Borrowed, being the past tense of borrow if used, would be slang. In my home town thats what we jokingly call HICKISH.

Answer 5

borrowed wouldnt be correct because that is past tense and listen to it this way. Would it be okay if I borrowed your tent? U r asking if it is okay if you borrowed his or her tent in the past but borrow is present so that would be correct. Like twins and twin the correct one is twin even though people say twins.

Answer 6

borrowed is past tense, borrow is present. What is the confusion? Would it be ok if I borrow your tent ? Is the correct one.

What do you teach - underwater basketweaving?

Answer 7

Use would with borrowed, will with borrow. The former is past-tense. The latter is future-tense.

On a side note, "will it be..." or "would it be..." are examples of passive-voice. Discourage your students from using passive-voice.

Answer 8

i need to borrow - present tense. i borrowed his tent last week. - past tense. right ? that's just how i would use it.

Answer 9

I think most people just use "borrow" nowadays. "Borrowed" is usually used if you have "borrowed it before,or heaven forbid,did it without asking. I hope I helped.

Answer 10

accordin to my calculations the hypothesis of the triangle is equal to the qoutient in the 5th division divided by 45.45927306725425643259687694796 times pie