Can anyone give me a straight, conceivable, intelligent answer?

Question

I have heard the arguement that being gay is a sin, God say so, gays are going to burn in hell, blah blah blah. Let me share some facts, and let's see what arguments come up with after that.

*You cannot choose to be gay. It is a proven fact, scientifically. Gay animals exist, I know this for a fact because my cat is gay. And even if it wasn't a scientifically proven fact, EVERY single gay person I ever met either said they were always that way, before they even knew what gay was, or they were straight until they found the one person they clicked with and that was it for them. So who's gonna tell me that we're all lying?
*People say gay marriage is wrong because gays can't procreate, and God made man and woman so they could get together and produce babies. What about couples who can't have children? All the men and women who are sterile? God made them too, so should they also remain unwed? And will they also burn in hell for not fulfilling God's purposes?

*Being gay is a sin. According to whose religion? Just because your religion says one thing, doesn't mean my religion doesnt' say something different. What are you going to do about the Jews, Hindus, Buddists, Pagans or Wiccans, and Atheists? Let's hope you don't intend to stop them from marrying to, because believe me, it ain't gonna work.
*Gay people shouldn't adopt, because children should be raised in a home with a mother and a father. Well, even if I wasn't gay I'm sure you'd try to infringe on my rights here and now. I was raised by a single parent. I'm in college to become a chef and soon start my own business. God, that's sooo deprived, isn't it?
*All gay people.....
Anything that starts with a generalization like that is immediate ignorance. You haven't met every gay person in the world, so don't start by thinking you know all of them.

So after reading all of this carefully and clearly, can anybody give me a straight, intelligent answer as to why they feel like gay people shouldn't share the same rights as any of straight couple WITHOUT involving their religious beliefs-because face it, separation of church and state exists for a reason-or saying anything along the lines of "eww" "gross" and "it's just wrong."?

***Already got one using religion as an excuse.
I said without using religious beliefs because not everybody believes in the same thing. Whose to say my religion isn't different from yours?

***Also, people who say being gay is a sin. Do you eat shellfish? Do you cotton/polyester/spandex mixes? Women, do you cover your head before you pray? Are you judging others? It's always strange to me how some people are quick to point out how horrible it is to be gay, yet they commit adultery, eat foods they aren't supposed to eat, among many other things the bible also says you aren't supposed to do.

Can I please, please, PLEASE get an answer that doesn't contain "God says....you will burn in hell unless you ask for forgiveness."?
This isn't rocket science, folks. Star29 is a picture perfect example of people who use their religion as an excuse rather than give an actual answer. AGAIN I ASK:
Whose to say my religion isn't different from yours? You're going to judge me because I don't believe the same thing you believe in?
Maybe you're right, star29, maybe there are some gay people out there who DID choose to be gay when they were 20 or so. SOME. However there are others who don't fall into that category. They knew, always knew, just like you wake up in the morning and know that you're alive.

Also-if anyone is still even reading at this point-can anyone tell me what a person will lose by letting gay people marry? It's a painless, victimless, crime. If we're going to burn in hell, why do you care so much?

Once again Star29 ignored my requests. WITHOUT-WITHOUT, I repeat-using religious beliefs as a ground arguement.
If you're not going to get it right, don't bother coming back with an answer.

Okay, I didn't mean it as I thought it was a crime. I have been told, again and again that being gay is a crime. So, let me correct myself-If it can go so far as to be called a crime, it's a painless, victimless crime. Happy now?

I'm about give up and choose the best answer. I can count on one hand-and still have fingers left over-how many people have truly attempted to answer this question following the rules I laid down. Just about everybody threw out their religious garbage and expected me to buy it because THEY believe in it.
Thanks everyone for participating, though.

Answer 1

no religion no bs, gays should not marry. Tax laws in the US actually favor un married couples - go guess. I was married and have kids, I get more back on my taxes now with my partner than I ever did with my ex. Set up a trust, get a will and get over it. It cost me 20K to get divorced, it cost me six hunderd to set up a trust and will. Marriage is nothing more than a legal agreement. Want to honor the covenant of marriage? Honor each other. Most married people dont know how to do that anyway.

Answer 2

Sin doesn't exist unless a god exists, and no-one in all of human history has ever produced one single bit of objective evidence or valid argument for the existence of a god, and they're never likely to, so we can safely ignore the 'homosexuality is sin' argument.

Now, since all moral judgments are subjective (just opinions, not facts), everyone can have their own moral views on homosexuality and no-one can be considered objectively wrong. My personal opinion is that homosexuality is simply not a moral issue, any more than heterosexuality or left-handedness or eye colour is, so there's no valid reason to deny homosexuals a right that heterosexuals enjoy, e.g. the right for two consenting adults of legal age to get together and marry if they so wish, regardless of gender. The whole idea of telling people who you think they can have a relationship with seems not only wrong, it seems downright stupid. If someone told me that I can't be with person X because they're the wrong gender / colour / age / culture / whatever, I would just laugh and tell them to naff off, and that's what homosexuals should do.

As for choice, well it seems absurd to claim that sexual orientation is a choice - I know for certain that I couldn't choose to stop finding women sexually attractive and start finding men sexually attractive instead, and I've no reason to suppose that homosexuals were able to do so (or would even want to do so, if they had the ability to choose). Moreover, it doesn't matter anyway - If someone *could* choose to go from straight to gay, who are we to tell them not to, or that they couldn't have a relationship with another gay person once they'd done it? In general I'd say it's morally wrong to stop anyone doing anything, as long as it's consensual and harmless.

Answer 3

All that chemical imbalance crap is just bull. Ok, so there is a prohibition in Leviticus about men not lying with other men as with women, but the Bible is full of old fashioned laws that no longer apply. The Bible also says that it is sin to wear garments with different types of thread, that to work on Sundays is a sin punished by stoning, that mising crops on the same land is sin. Why don't all these biblethumping do-gooders pick on these other crimes? Besides, David and Jonathan were clearly GAY lovers; Daniel was a eunuch, and the King's FAVORITE (Favorite what? LOVER, of course). So, there, if anyone wants to use the Bible as a valid standard for sexuality, I would recommend they would read the Bible first. REALLY READ IT. And, by the way, there are religions that do not prohibit non heterosexual identities: in India, there are the Hijras, who were the favorite followers of Rama; in other premodern religions and cultures, there are berdaches; in Andean civilizations, there are the sun-sanctioned warmiaukas, gendercrossing people who are considered special. HUMANITY'S DIVERSITY IS HUMANITY'S WEALTH. Fight intolerance with knowledge, people!

Answer 4

There is a huge difference between gay animals and gay people. Animals don't have even close to brain function humans have. They don't understand what they are doing. Just because a couple studies say you were born gay doesn't make it true. You know what you are doing and I have read many articles about people who are gay and some say they were fine until they turned 20 or something like that so obviously they weren't always like that. Science has been proven wrong millions of times before so why not this time? Men and women should be together not one girl and another girl or one guy and another guy. It is wrong. Couples who can't have a baby can adopt. Same with people who are sterile. They aren't committing crimes against faith however. God doesn't get mad at people who can't have babies because it is impossible. He does get mad at people who could have babies but choose not to because they would rather be gay. You will burn in hell unless you ask for forgiveness and change your ways.

I gave you an answer you do choose to be that way just because you refuse to accept what I said does not mean I did not answer your question.


Eph. 5:23-32

For a husband is the head of his wife as Christ is the head of his body, the church; he gave his life to be her Savior. As the church submits to Christ, so you wives must submit to your husbands in everything.
And you husbands must love your wives with the same love Christ showed the church. He gave up his life for her to make her holy and clean, washed by baptism and God's word. He did this to present her to himself as a glorious church without a spot or wrinkle or any other blemish. Instead, she will be holy and without fault. In the same way, husbands ought to love their wives as they love their own bodies. For a man is actually loving himself when he loves his wife. No one hates his own body but lovingly cares for it, just as Christ cares for his body, which is the church. And we are his body.

As the Scriptures say, "A man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one."

Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother,
and shall cleave unto his wife:
and they shall be one flesh.
Genesis 2:24

Answer 5

I so have to attack this one, so here goes...

Background: I'm from the midwest, I'm 25, I work in health care as a profession, and I'm very much gay.

The facts, opinions ... the fiction and non-fiction: Point one, "You cannot choose to be gay." Correct. For the unbiased statement on that, we turn to the American Psychological Association. "No, human beings can not choose to be gay or straight." Pretty straight forward.

Two, procreation. Well, I was adopted, and my adoptive parents can't procreate. Sure, the way you wrote your argument, you're comparing apples to oranges, but I see your point.

Being gay is a sin. Well, yes, absolutely it is. But so is divorce, as is, well, anything in excess.

Adoption. Well, I have a boyfriend, and with that relationship came two beautiful twin boys, both of whom I love as my own. That's a state of mind thing, but there's no one who can tell me they aren't my kids.

The responses. "BTW, it also says in the Bible that to be forgiven of your sins; all you have to do is ask. Remember Christ died on the cross to wash your sins away." Amen, that's all I have to say to that.

"However, as a christian, I don't support homosexuality. But then again, it is out of your control. I'm on the fence as far as homosexuality, but I agree with same sex marriage 100%!" OK, so what's this respondent believe again? I'm confused.

And in the end, using your question as my rant box, as will likely be a typical continuation for me, I realize that I can't give you the answer you're seeking. I mean, one, because I'm gay and I stand up for my rights. After all, if I didn't, who would?

I echo your question, because there are a ton of people out there that hate me just because I said I'm gay. What's so wrong with me? Do you know me? And if you don't, how can you possibly judge me?

Answer 6

You are right! Saying that someone chooses to be gay is like saying someone chooses to be ostracized, made fun of, and tormented. Many gay people go through those things and I'm sure if it was a chose they would choose not to go through those things. I am not gay, but i have friends and family who are and I think gay marriage should be legal because it is unfair that they don't get the same rights marriage brings a straight couple.

Answer 7

I believe the same, you don't choose to be gay you just are, and if God created us then he created gays as well, thus meaning they will not go to hell (if you have such beliefs).

Over the 2006 years since Jesus sacrificed himself for us, many have put their own interpretation on creation and religions and the bible (King James for example). People will always have their own opinion, I say to each his own, as long as you don't try to force your prejudices on to me. Sorry went a little theological there for a minute.

Not gay myself, but have bothers-in-law who are, one of which has been in a relationship that has lasted longer than my hetero marriage.

Fear people fear what they don't understand.

And Yes I do believe that gays should be allowed to adopt, sexual orientation does NOT affect your ability to love, care for and provide for a child.

Also I'm from Ontario gay marriage IS legal here and life still goes on.
Hope that helped

Answer 8

I personally have agreed with gay marriage for a while. I am not gay, but I believe that two people who love each other deserve the right to marry regardless of religion. However, as a christian, I don't support homosexuality. But then again, it is out of your control. I'm on the fence as far as homosexuality, but I agree with same sex marriage 100%!

Answer 9

The bible does NOT say homosexuality is wrong....or an abomination....or a detestable thing. They misinterpret their bibles by believeing what someone else told them about its meanings. They know not what they do.

These people are afraid.
They are sheeple. Let them follow. Let them hate.
They fail to remember that, on Judgememt Day, they will be judged in the exact manner that they have judged others.
That's SCARY!

Gays and Lesbians will be allowed civil unions soon enough.
Not to worry.
Love always wins.

Answer 10

I found it interesting that you said 9in you additional comments) gay marriage was a "painless, victimless crime...."

I think people like to tell other folks what to do. You will always have you hypocrites- in and out of the gay community.

In the end, whomever wishes to be together will be and no political issues will stop them.

Answer 11

I don't think Gays can choose. To cut to the chase...I think Gays are mentally challenged. Something went wrong in their brain. It seems that this is happening more in the last generation. Maybe the chemicals in the Medicines, birth control pills or fluoride on the water makes the brain have a chemical imbalance. Maybe it will become normal and maybe horses will learn to fly.