Does court-ordered attendance at Alcoholics Anonymous meetings violate separation between church & state?

Question

Explain.

Answer 1

YES, any coercion to attend AA, or to profess belief in 12-step ideology, by any government entity, is an Establishment Clause violation.
12-step ideology is a religious belief system.
The best way to understand the problem is from the opposite way around -- suppose a person is ordered by a government agency to "get help to stop drinking" after an incident, and the agency specifies AA. The person finds they do not cotton to the 12-step ideology - that the idea of a "higher power" removing "character defects" and stopping them from drinking if they pray hard enough just makes no sense. But the person decides to stop drinking though personal empowerment ideology (the antithesis of AA's "I am powerless, only God can save me" ideology), and repeated breath and urine tests prove the person is indeed abstaining. Now the agency that ordered AA involvement finds out they are not "working the steps" and threatens the person with jail (or job loss, or loss of children, etc.) if they do not demonstrate a "sincere commitment" to AA and the 12 steps.
Is this fair? - Should someone be punished for being sober the "wrong" way?
This is not a far-fetched scenario, by the way. I experienced it myself. I was told by the government agency in my situation that "being sober is not enough", that they "need to see that I am working the 12 steps or else I will face severe consequences."
This is indeed government-coerced religious involvement. I successfully sued over this.
The government can order sobriety in certain circumstances. But HOW someone achieves it is no one's business.

Answer 2

The Establishment Clause captures the principle of separation of church and state commanding that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion... ."

Historically, the clause was not understood to forbid governmental expressions of support for religion, but rather to ensure that there was no compulsive state taxation in support of established churches.

In modern times, however, the Supreme Court has moved towards restricting government expressions that communicate support for religious ideas. When challenging mandated 12-Step participation, a conclusion that 12-Step programs are religious does not alone compel a further conclusion that the Establishment Clause has been violated. Rather, courts make that determination by applying one of several tests that have emerged in Establishment Clause jurisprudence. The two tests currently used most often in determining an unconstitutional establishment of religion are the "Coercion Test" and the "Endorsement Test."

In deciding cases dealing with mandated 12-Step participation in prison or probation contexts, courts have generally relied on the Coercion Test. Using this test, the courts find Establishment Clause violations if a prisoner or probationer is coerced to participate in the program.

The Endorsement Test is more appropriate for a drug court context because it looks at the overall results of government promotion of the program instead of relying on the program's details. Rather than focusing on whether the state compelled a particular individual to participate in a religious exercise, this test questions the public statement made by such government interaction with religion. If the government action appears to endorse the religious message, then it violates the Establishment Clause.

Conclusion: Court ordered AA attendance may violate the First Amendment unless a secular alternative is available.

Answer 3

No. AA is not a religious organization. Having had the opportunity to work for and be a staff member of a drug/alch. rehab agency, I was able to sit in on the meetings when we escorted our residents to the meetings. The part about the higher source, etc., is usually very, very non-denominational and God is translated as a "higher source" rather than an almighty being or a Christ figure, etc. I noticed that depending on the location of the "coffee pot" some were really pushing church and god while others were very laid-back about the whole religion thing while yet another encouraged our residents to seek the higher power within themselves. Even though I was at the latter example as an observer/escort, I must say I was very comfortable with what the latter had to say.
So, too long an answer to say no, it is not violation of church and state.

Answer 4

Yes it most certainly does, as AA is an organization based on Christian principles. However, as far as violations of church and stater go in the US, this is extremely trivial. During the last five or six years, there has been a huge multibillion-dollar push to give money to white, conservative churches, decimating the Jeffersonian wall between church and state. Faith-based prisons run by churches are being built with tax money throughout the south and in other regions, and it is becoming more commonplace to give tax money to religious schools, while ignoring the problems in public schools. This is the most theocratic this country, founded by Masons with religious tolerance as a fundamental principle, has ever been, and it gets worse every day.

Answer 5

And dagnabbit, that's exactly what I'd march into court and yell at the judge when I appear next for a progress review. I'd make it clear that AA is a religous organization...to me a church...and the State has no right in ordering me to attend a church I don't affiliate with. My Sunday church services are held at Henry's Saloon, it's been that way for 20 years and Im not going to change now. That's what Id say.

Answer 6

YES.

AA talks a lot about being "spiritual, not religious", but every time the issue is brought before a higher court, the final decision is that AA is a religion or religious in nature. The courts that have ruled on this so far:

the Federal 7th Circuit Court in Wisconsin, 1984.
the Federal District Court for Southern New York, 1994.
the New York Court of Appeals, 1996.
the New York State Supreme Court, 1996.
the Tennessee State Supreme Court.
the Federal 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals in New York, 1996.
the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit.
the U.S. Court of Appeals, Seventh District, 1996.
the Federal Appeals Court in Chicago, 1996.

The difference between religious and spiritual is fuzzy at best, religion seems to conjure up thoughts of dogmatic belief while spiritualality more of a feeling. But AA is quite dogmatic when it comes to belief:

"We found that as soon as we were able to lay aside prejudice and express even a willingness to believe in a Power greater than ourselves, we commenced to get results, even though it was impossible for any of us to fully define or comprehend that Power, which is God."
B.W. BB pg 46

"At the moment we are trying to put our lives in order. But this is not an end in itself. Our real purpose is to fit ourselves to be of maximum service to God..."
B.W. BB pg 77

"If you think you are an atheist, an agnostic, a skeptic, or have any other form of intellectual pride which keeps you from accepting what is in this book, I feel sorry for you."
Dr. Bob BB pg 181

"From great numbers of such experiences, we could predict that the doubter who still claimed that he hadn't got the "spiritual angle," and who still considered his well-loved A.A. group the higher power, would presently love God and call Him by name.
B. W. 12 & 12 pg 108-109

AA makes a big deal out of people being able to "choose" their Higher Power, but it doesn't hold up in practice. Your Higher Power must behave in the same manner as everyone elses in the room (WE came to believe...). The God of AA cannot cure alcoholism, only grant a daily reprieve; the God I was brought up with could raise the dead.

Even if AA worked and had more than a 5% success rate, it is still against the spirit of Thomas Jefferson's ideals to have the courts mandate a religious solution to a secular problem.

Answer 7

No it is not a violation. It is an opportunity for the offender to avoid a longer jail term. Sounds like you are trying to stir up some more trouble for yourself (or someone). Leave it alone. Obviously there were issues or the court wouldn't be involved in the first place. You screwed up. Do the right thing now and move on with you life.

Answer 8

I know the court system does in fact order some of us to meetings And want you to have the secretaryof the particular meeting your attending to sign a slip of paper and he or she wont do that until after the meting is over,so you might as well try to listen while your there,might even learn something! a.a.also have a book other than the Big book called The twlve steps and twelve traditions that will answer your question best,but personallyI dont feel that it does,thanks for that Question though..

Answer 9

yes,

in the pure idea, AA is based on the belief of some higher power ( God) does not say which God, but it is based on a religious idea of a God.

with that said, I don't beleive in the speration of Church and State, and I don't beleive there is constitutionally a seperation,

Just take a look at the actual constitituion, not what the ACLU or what some political party says, what the actual document says and tell me where the church is restricted from influenceing the nation, and where we can't support various religious programs.

Answer 10

No.

First, there are non-religious AA meetings.

Second, the amount of religion in AA meetings is minimal. Their higher power is about as religious as the force in Star Wars.

Third, attendence is voluntary. You don't have to go. You can take the time instead.