Is math proof of a higher power?

Question

Laws in the universe, proof to me there is a governing body! E=mc squared.... all over the universe. Is an "invisible hand" making that so? Proof enough to me, what about you?

Laws in the universe, proof to me there is a governing body! E=mc squared.... all over the universe. Is an "invisible hand" making that so? Proof enough to me, what about you? Remember, proof of a governing body!!!! Something is maintaning a constant throughout the universe! Humans recognize it sure, but who puts it into play? That's right! A higher power! Sure two apples adding together don't equal proof, but then again, you have to be somewhat smart to realize there are theories and even better universal laws that are constants throughout the universe. Heck, apples alone are proof there are higher powers, otherwise where did they come from?

Answer 1

Yes, it is.

Mathematicians know that if you have a number you can always find a high number.

If you take a number as a power, you can always find a higher power!

Answer 2

Not necessarily. What you've posited is, essentially, an "argument by lack of imagination." Namely, we can't see how a structured object could come about without a designer, so therefore the designer must exist.

However, it's possible that the laws of the universe arose purely by physical and mathematical necessity; the elements of the First Event (the Big Bang, for instance, if you believe in the Big Bang) could have arisen and expressed themselves fully in the structured universe that we see because, if they hadn't, the universe would either have failed to develop, or would have been insufficient to produce humankind.

It's possible, following this thought, that an infinite number of universes were created and, either instantly or over time, collapsed, in which case the universe we know was initially a product of chance. It's also possible, however, that no other universes ever started at all -- that this one exists because it's the only kind that possibly could ever exist.

This leads to the question: could the universe have been created such that the basic physical or mathematical properties were inherently different than those we know?

(In fact, we don't know that the laws we experience, like Einstein's general theory of relativity, are uniform throughout the universe -- see the Wikipedia article linked below.)

Edited to add a note to "phyziczteacher" below: I'm sure there are plenty of people who disagree with you who will neither "flame you" nor become defensive about their stances. In any case, your example might be relevant if Earth were the only planet in the universe, but there are, of course, so many stars in the universe that don't have planets at all, or have planets that can't support life. Given the size of the universe, the fact that one planet arose that can support life *can* be perceived as a random event.

(Please understand, I'm not denying the existence of a Creator; I believe in one myself. I'm just saying that the existence of life on Earth or of "uniform" physical laws throughout the universe -- if they are indeed uniform -- don't necessarily prove the existence of that Creator.)

Answer 3

That would be asking if science is proof of God. And the answer is no, since if you think about it, E=mc^2 isn't entirely unobvious. After all, the units are right, and the speed of light is the only speed that stays constant no matter how you move. It wouldn't make sense if it were some other speed, because then if you were traveling fast enough, a stationary observer would be able to see you converting mass into negative energy, which would make no sense.

Answer 4

Kurt Godel proved that any system of logic that encompases number theory is either incomplete or inconsistent. What does this mean? It means that either all mathematics is crap (that is the inconsistent part) or that there are truths of mathematics that can be proven.

If mathematics is inconsistent, then your argument does not hold water, because anything can be proven. The good news is that no one really thinks mathematics is inconsistent.

If mathematics is incomplete, then there are truths of mathematics that can't be proven -- so your argument does not hold water, because these math proofs that you say imply the existence of God don't actually exist.

You are trying to use a variation of the Ontological Argument for the Existence of God -- first put forth by St Thomas Aquinas. In the early 1900s, Bertrand Russell exposed the logical flaw in his argument. You should read it.

Answer 5

I agree. The Universe is too ordered, too logical, and too complex to have been created by chance! I refuse to believe that this is all coincidence.

Consider this: The Universe is built on laws, and those laws dictate how things work. Those laws allow for our Sun to generate massive amounts of energy...energy that gives us life. But, those same laws also allow the sun to radiate harmful and deadly radiation. But, those same laws also allow for our planet to have a rotating core of super hot metal, which creates a magnetic field around the Earth. That magnetic field shields us from the deadly radiation from the sun, all the while allowing the useful energy still through.

Is that all by chance? Impossible! Of course that is my humble opinion, so if you want to flame me, remember that, and also consider why you might feel so defensive if my comments upset you.

Answer 6

you might be right but you still have to gather up some faith as mathematics originates from a set of somewhat unproven assumptions. For instance that the universe is finite - we don't know that for sure.

Answer 7

There is no connection between E=mc squared and the INVISIBLE hand.Both are different subjects.

Answer 8

Not necessarily. We "invent" or "discover" mathematics that match our understanding of the world. They happen to have practical applications. That doesn't prove anything, except that humans have the ability to understand the world around them.

Answer 9

Proof that there is a higher power is in the fact that you're not of your own creation, mathematics is secondary. :)

Answer 10

there is no proof for god.
math is not a proof for god either.

1 apple and one more apple gives you a total of 2 apples.
what the hell has that to do with god ?