If everyone believed there exists a purple dragon, would it be there?

Question

Thanks for ALL the replies. I'm benumbed by this question. In playing devil's advocate my head has warped. Forgive this late response.

Consensus seems either it is there in some way, or we want to keep 'reality' distinct from what we believe.

But how is 'objective reality' not some kind of thing to be believed? If no one believed in objective reality, then how could it confer existence? This seems to be the case with the 'flat world'. We stop believing it, so does it stop being real, or was it never real to begin with... The latest theory will always say what's before wasn't real and yet, what we have now is.

Personally I'd also like to see the dragon up close, I'd like to take many photographs and see what it's doing before I come to accept it... But if we assume THAT we believe it, it's quite hard to say that it wouldn't have existence-status. It would be like having a belief that the sun exists, and yet it really isn't. That kind of reality would become suspect , and well, less real.

The contrapositive doesn't however seem as forceful: that if a thing doesn't exist, then not everyone believes it does exist. So, one doubter would alter reality by first order logic. Modifications would need to be made in terms of Most, or on some fuzzy model. And still the non-existence of things would be commanded by the lesser majority. So only things that All believed would exist, and everything else not.

I find this challenging and fun in a different way-- but I can't spend any more time on it today.

Answer 1

This is a great question.
To answer it we must first lay down some framework of what kinds of EXISTENCE are there.

Here is an outline of a theory I was developing for a while.

There are 3 types of existence.
Type 1: things that exist and can be directly experienced. Examples: Sun, Moon, my chair, basically any physical object.
Type 2: things that exists but can only be experienced by their effects, and the effects are mandatory. say gravity -- you can't see it, touch it, smell it, etc -- but you can DEFINITELY feel its effects. Even if you choose not to believe in gravity if you jump of the cliff you will fall down all the same.
Type 3: things that exist, cannot be experienced directly and their effects are NOT mandatory.
For example: Money(NOT currency!), Marriage. Some people change dramatically when they marry. Other marry but ignore its effects. Same with money, a lot of people are influenced DRAMATICALLY by money. Yet, you can choose not to believe in money, refuse to buy and sell, live by bartering only. This is not convenient -- but POSSIBLE.

Now let's examine your case with Purple Dragon.
If everyone(or even ENOUGH of people) would believe in purple dragon, or in Zeus, or in Jesus, then he really exists and you will be able to experience him by his effects. Go to church on Sunday -- you will see.
Of course it would only have Type 3 existence. Meaning that its effects are optional. If you choose to exclude yourself from society, then Purple Dragon/Zeus/Jesus would have no effect on you.

P.S.
My theory deals very well with Flat-Earth objection.
Earth is type 1 objects and as such it is mandatory -- so human opinions are irrelevant.

Objections of the type: "Moon would not disappear if people would stop believing in it" actually supports my theory.
Moon has type 1 existence and thus it and its effect are mandatory. Thus people cannot just disbelieve the earth or moon away.
People can only do it with some type 3 objects.
For example if people would stop believing in money -- money would disappear and we would just have bunch of useless papers. Yet you cannot deny that money exist.
Same does not work for the Moon, suggesting that moon and money "exist" in different sense.

P.P.S
Objections of the type "show me a photograph" are also nicely distinguished by my theory.
I would just demand to see a picture of "gravity" or of a "black hole" These things cannot be seen, they can only be experienced by their effects. Yet no one denies that gravity exists because you cannot photograph it.

Answer 2

Your question seems to be about the nature of reality and the power of belief. How much influence does the human mind-
or a multitude of human minds-really have on the world around
us? People can do amazing things when they believe they can,
for example when they are hypnotized. There's also faith healing
and the like. We can influence ourselves and other people,but
reality itself?(Here comes that old question again-if a tree falls
in the forest and noone's around to hear it,does it make any noise?)
People once believed that the world was the center of the universe,but that didn't make it so. When sailors believed that
the world was flat and sea monsters lived at the edge,the world
stayed oval and monsters did not spring into existence.
If everyone believed a purple dragon existed,it wouldn't anyway.
Perception doesn't always equal reality.

Answer 3

Hi, I didn't read the additional detail of your question because they seemed SOOO boring!! But I think the question by itself is good.
WELL, THERE WERE WITCHES IN THE STUPID CENTURY, WEREN'T THERE? If people truly believed there was a purple dragon, everything would be a proof of it!
Reality would twist itself metaforically so the whole dragon thing would makes sense.
Here we don't have a president telling a lie, or an actor faking life: here's people, believing a common thing, the whole bunch of them.
It's like that question: if a tree fell down and no one could hear it, would it be making a sound?
Of course, when you know Physics it's a little easier to answer, but my point is things exist because we see them. There's no such thing as a something that exists but no one knows it! Technically, there could be. And very probably there is! But if absolutely no one has even conceived the idea of it, like they conceived the idea of ghosts and alternate realitites, how could it be? Ghosts exist. Whether they're real or not. Whether in someone's brain or in 'reality'. If the idea of them did not exist, neither would they. If the idea of their absence did not exist, they could not possibly "not be there"
But if the absence of the dragon did not exist, how could it be?
I mean, people are starting to doubt life is there, because it ocurred to someone that maybe it wasn't real. But so the idea existed.
If in people's head there was simply not the mere idea that maybe the purple dragon did not exist, how could the idea exist? It couldn't! The purple dragon could not possibly not be there.
Naturally, it's difficult to conceive since it's the most human thing to do to be reluctant to everything for no good reason. But if the whole of human existence in verity could not possibly imagine something wasn't there, it would certainly be there.
Think of this (it's kind of a weaker idea, but it serves to the point): WHY DO YOU KNOW YOU EXIST, EVEN AS A THOUGHT OR A FALSE DREAM? COULD YOU CONCEIVE THE IDEA OF ABSOLUTE VACUUM (BLACK IS A COLOR-YOUR MIND'S INTERPRETATION OF ABSENCE, WHITE IS A COLOR TOO)? THEN HOW COULD YOU IMAGINE ABSOLUTE NOTHINGNESS OF YOURSELF?

Answer 4

no. The truth of somethings existence is not in any way in need of anyone's belief. for example; many years ago most people thought that the world was flat. Let's say for the sake of argument that everyone thought that, that was true. in hindsight we know that they were wrong, because humans now inhabit most of the world, and have traveled all of the way across it. The truth is not relative....ever.

the following is an excerpt to one of my "details in response to -.-
"but since I exist, and I know that I exist, another persons belief has no bearing on my existence. You stated in your question: if everyone believed that something existed then would it exist? or something to that effect. Logically it would hold true that if everybody did not think that something existed then it would not exist. I still exist no matter who does not believe it, and that is the basis of my answer to your purple dragon."

If I may argue with myself for just a moment: Is it even possible to believe in something that does not exist without faith? I think, no is my answer. So if we were to remove the faith parameters from the equation the only way we could believe that something existed is if it actually existed, which is why you cannot be forced to believe something. In conclusion this time, if everyone believed, not including faith, that a purple dragon existed, it would be because the dragon existed, but the dragon would still not be the product of belief. The argument being: if I believe (-faith) that x, then x must be true. If I do not believe that x, but have no evidence for x being false, then x has a 50/50 (true/not true) chance of being true. If x is true, then I am justified in my belief, but am not necissary to the truthfulness of x.
please forgive spelling errors

Sorry, I forgot to change my answer to yes; iff faith is not introduced in the beliefs.
PS I don't think that everyone has to believe it...obvious huh?

Answer 5

I dont think it would actually exist but our minds would make it real. What i mean is that eventually there a quest would start to find that dragon, and people would start seeing it everywhere even though it never existed making it real but it wouldnt really be there. The best example i can give to you is Loch Ness, someone "saw" it and suddenly everyone is seeing it until now everyone knows about it even if you say it doesnt exist you still feed the myth, belief whatever you want to call it. The mind is something very powerful. I hope you got what im ttrying to say :)

Answer 6

It doesn't really matter if it would be there or not. If people created myths around the dragon and gave the dragon qualities like it being magical or friendly or evil and scary then it would be real to them. It might as well exist. It would exist for them. People give attributes to what they call God and live their lives based on all that goes with those beliefs. It controls their whole lives in every detail. God, fairy god-mother, purple dragon, it's all the same. Great question!

Answer 7

1.) Where is there?
2.) If everyone believes in the existence of a purple dragon then it exists as a belief.
3.) But if you mean would it appear magically before our eyes well, I can't answer that because we all don't believe in it so we can't check.

Answer 8

No. There exists a reality outside our minds, and simply because everyone believes a purple dragon exists does not mean it truly does exist.

Answer 9

The world IS flat if you want to build a house (ie: if you are only interested in a little bit of it) The world is round if you want to study astronomy. The world is big if you want to swim from one side to the other. The world is tiny if you consider the vastness of the universe. Its all true. Its all relative.

Now get out of my way I've got a few imaginary dragons to slay.

Answer 10

If everyone stopped believing in the moon, would it disappear?

I highly doubt, intuitively speaking, that the dragon would exist, but you would get countless claims of dragon spotting.