what do jews base their claim to israel on?

Question

Bible aside, what is the (Zionist Jews') claim for the state of Israel based upon?

There must be more physical evidence other than a book that has been known to exaggerate (or just plain fabricate) events on occasion.

As for the people claiming that 'God' said it was their land- give me a break...

Answer 1

Historical proof that they lived there. It is not based on the Bible. Zionism, especially the first Zionist were secular.

Answer 2

Ahem...At any rate, it's a well-established historical fact disputed by virtually NO ONE that they existed in Israel for at least a thousand years (see Tel Dan Inscription, possibly 500ish years longer) before being driven out into exile.
They've essentially been refugees for 2000 years. Some might argue that after 2000 years, they've forfeited rights to the land. I think this is not based on any logical arguments, since no one could explain WHY this is equivalent to a forfeiting of the land.
Further, the reason we have no other people group to compare them to is that no other people group has ever survived without a home land for more than 200 years. (Interesting trivia.)

For the record, scholars that take the Bible with a grain of salt would insinuate that the Israelites were a NATIVE population that developed a body of myths to explain where they came from. IN this line of thinking, the Israelites have been in the land for much longer thn 1000 years, simply as an extension of natives.



For the record, according to this argument, the Palestinians still have some claim to the land also, since it's been their homeland for the past 100 years of so.
Strangely enough, before that time the land had been virtually uninhabited for a period of time. Mark Twain noted that when he visited...
Hm.
Anyway. That's why the land was divided into 2 countries, one was called "Jordan" and the other was set aside to eventually become a Jewish state. Jordan was for the arab palestinians, and the other section was, obviously, for Jewish folks.

I think this is where reasonable people really begin to debate. Was Jordan an acceptable homeland for the Palestinians? and a million other questions.



-Stephen


P.S. Ancient Israel did not succesfully eliminate all previous inhabitants of the land, and further, more made the area their home while Israel occupied it. Philistines didn't get to Israel until after Israel was already there (prob. about 12th century B.C.)


P.P.S. The claims about Mt. Nebo are patently inaccurate. Mt. Sinai (he says this is a reference to mt. Nebo in Jordan) is what the mountain is called in the Biblical writings, which are almost universally regarded as being in Sinai, not Jordan. Those who disagree (there are a few scholars who disagree, though not very many) place the mountain in Arabia.

Answer 3

the bible for one and allot of historians from that time and future Rome wrote every thing down they did and they took a land that was Israel from the Jews back in the day but in seventy ad when the Jew revolted they destroyed the temple and renamed the land Palestine and the Romans wrote all this down which they are so good at doing so that's half of their claim out side the bible but u may say hey they left so they have no claim to it any more it was abandoned but that not true the byzantine empire forced them out even barring them from the holy city it's self Jerusalem now u may say to your self then why didn't the Jews fight back to get their land back they did fight while under British con troll they ran an underground much like the french did while the Nazis ran France there has been no dispute over weather Israel was ever the Jews land or not it was theirs before and it will be theirs long after in fact the term Jew is slang for the kingdom of Judah that was used by the Romans when they took Israel BTW THE JEWS ONLY HOLD ABOUT AN 8TH OF WHAT ISRAEL USED TO BE

Answer 4

I see the same old lies given in answer to this question.
These are the facts
The Jews originally came from what is now Iraq
They were taken into slavery in Egypt.
They escaped from their slavery at a time when the Egyptian state was weak and spent 40 years as nomads in the desert where they worshipped idols as well as the god of Moses ( borrowed from Akhenaten)
They eventually arrived at Mount Nebo in what is now Jordan where it is claimed that Moses was shown the promised land by his god.
If you stand on Mount Nebo today as I have done you will notice that the only land you can see is a small bit of the Jordan Valley and the northern end of the Dead Sea.
The land that they claim was already occupied by a thriving population both in the countryside and in cities. The only way they could take over was to kill the people who lived there ( remember Joshua and the Battle of Jericho).
It seems "thou shalt not kill" could be used very selectively.
The state of Israel in biblical times only lasted for two hundred years before it was overwhelmed by internal dissension and subsequent invaders such as the Romans.
Before the Zionists appeared on the scene in the 19th Century as a reaction to the persecution of jews in Europe, there were Jews living in the whole of the Middle East in harmony with the Arabs and other races for many centuries.
The Zionists changed all that with their distorted view of history and now we have the horrible mess as the Jews grab more land whenever possible and the Palestinians try to get back what was so recently theirs.
The Zionists triumphed after WW2 by acts of terrorism against the British controlling power, including the assassination of Lord Moyle in Cairo in 1944 , the destruction of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem by a bomb delivered in a milk churn to the kitchens, the murder of British hostages and the terrorising of the arab population. They also invented the letter bomb, the first of which was sent to a S.A.S. officer in England killing his brother who opened it by mistake. Some of these terrorists such as Begin later became leading Israeli politicians.
So you could say that Israel is the first successful terrorist state.
As you will see it has nothing to do with gods or historical rights , just who is better at killing.

Answer 5

Being a Jew is having a connection to ancient history. And they sure have paid a high price for their allegiance to their heritage. Most of us would sell out our ancestors far more cheaply. Historically, the region that was known as Palestine during modern times was the land where the nation had a temple for worship and had occupied for hundreds of years (thousands?) until the latter part of the Roman empire. Even the moslem religion is taken from the religion of Abraham. So, in a real sense, the culture, religion and history that bind that place together has roots much deeper than anything else on earth.

How hard is that to grasp?

Answer 6

What is ISrael's claim to Israel as a state? How about an unbroken presence in the country for the last 3500 years? Hmm- and the fact that they are the ONLY people to have had an independent state there- before the Jews it was just a bunch of iron age and stone age tribes- moving slowly from nomadic, pastoral existence to city-states. No country.

After the Jews it was a province of one or another external ruler- it was never indepenedent. So ISrael gets its legitimacy from having a population that has been there for 3500 years and being the only independent state to ever exist in the region!

Answer 7

To set the Bible aside in the case of Israel would be the equivalent of not mentioning the History of these people! Politically speaking, the British Mandate in May 14, 1948 handed their power over to Israel at midnight. Many battles have emerged, all miraclously won by the Israeli forces. Is God with them? No doubt!

Answer 8

They pulled together and bought the land, and built a country there from what was a desert wasteland.

The Jewish claim to Israel is based on the blood, sweat, tears, Jews put into building it. And the historical and moral right of Jews to a safe homeland in the Land of Israel

Answer 9

It is racism at it's very core. They (Zionist not Jews) basically believe they are responsible for Western Civilzation and because God chose Jews they think they speak for all Jews by claming this place where god chose them could only be for Jews and they will kill(smite) anyone who get's in there way . It is the same reasoning that Osama Bin Ladin used when American troops were in Saudi Arabia. It is the same reason for the Inquisition. Don't believe that any group on Earth is incapable of having a racist ideolgy. This is true for minority groups as well as majority groups around the world and all through history.

Answer 10

there is archeological find proving that israel did live there
google ooops yahoo for it
there is archeological proof in other countries as well that israel existed
so even if the bible didnt mention it you could still base it on other 'written' evidence
regarding the zionist that forced the british out
well i cant see the british giving up a piece of land to terrorists
im NOT sayin that the zioninst were tea and crumpet serving to the british
and saying that britain and the un including russia and the us were agreeable to the renewal of a jewish state
mostly to solve the jewish question
so in reality it wasnt begin, wietzmann or bengurion who got the land it was hitler
weird huh?

Answer 11

Put the bible, the presence of Jews in the area for millennia, the peaceful purchase of land by Zionist leaders, and the United Nations resolution aside.

Jews base their claim on the right of conquest, the oldest and most universally recognized basis for a claim that exists.

Muslims certainly thought that it would be sufficient when they ignored the United Nations resolution on partition and launched a war against the infant state of Israel.

The Arabs proved incompetent. Despite outnumbering their opponents by a thousand to one and having modern weapons and professional armies to use against poorly armed civilian settlers they were whipped like dogs. Even Israel women and children with improvised weapons proved able to defeat Muslims.

Now that a half century of one humiliating defeat after another, the Arabs come whining and crying like babies with pseudo-legal arguments and appeals to the international community. Its a pathetic response by a pathetic and cowardly people who civilized humanity ought to hold in utter contempt.