How can the NHS refuse to help people when every ones paying for it?

Question

Do they not have a bit of a nerve? Should fat people and smokers pay less tax if the NHS won't help them?

A private organization would be prosecuted if it refused to provide a service you were paying for.

Answer 1

They cannot.

The Universal Decalration of Human Rights Article 21, (2)
'Everyone has the rght of equal access to public service in his country."

To discriminate against sections of the community is unlawful, and anyone affected should take the Health Minister to court.

It is not for the government or doctors to decide upon who they will or will not treat.

Are fat people or smokers exempted from paying taxes or National Insurance contributions? No they are not, and so as taxpayers they can demand equal treatment, regardless of borders anywhere within the UK.

Should any NHS trust or doctor refuse you treatment, tell then that you will sue, both them and the hospital for human rights abuses.

I personally have downloaded the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and printed out as an 8 page booklet A5 size.

If I am dealing with local councillors, the new robber barons, I
point out the relevant clause and watch them squirm and then backtrack.

Knowledge is power, download a copy for your self, it's actually written in plain English, and is easy to understand.

Answer 2

If people won't help themselves why should the NHS? And not everyone pays for it. People claiming benefits get it for free. The NHS is genuinely on its knees, so it needs to do something. There's a lot wrong with the structure, ie. too many managers and too much money being thrown in the wrong direction, so something's got to give, or else we'll end up having a health service like America. I'm all for keeping the NHS, but there have to be some drastic changes to save it. If you don't want fat people and smokers to not get help, what do you suggest?

Answer 3

smoking and obesity are good places to start, for restricting access to services.
smokers and obose people are told to help themselves quite rightly before the NHS can operate where an operation is required. in the case of the obese this is due to the equipment in hospitals generally only being able to deal with people up to a certain size.
smokers other than a lung transplant in some case what else can the nhs do. and why should someone who smokes get a new set of lungs to abuse? the person they get those lungs from probably never smoked (or they would not be fit to transpant).
and one section of society you failed to mention here is the binge drinkers who not only abuse thier bodies with the drink so may want but not deserve a fresh liver to replace the abused one, but who often end up in street fights wasting the time of ambulance crews and the very costly time in A & E departments.
likewise with sports injuries. i'm not saying people should not play any sports but people should however take responsibility for therir health and in the cases listed above be made to pay at a minimum 50 to 60% of the cost of treatment if not the whole 100% where the injuries are self inflicted. in the case of a fight the person who thrrew the first punch should be forced to pay 100% of the medical expenses as well as pay for any police time that may have been wasted as a result.
the rest of us would then get a better service though that said we will need to get the money already in the service distrubuted better. the surgeons and doctors should get less money and the frontline nursing staff should get more as should all the support staff (that rearely get mentioned, caterers cleaners etc).
no the obese and smokers should be paying a lot more in tax frankly. the condition they have are often self inflicted. though saying that in rare cases obesity is as a result of a genuine medic condition and so should be covered under the normal terms of the health service as it was originally intended "free at the point of use"
however with people now living longer than they did when the NHS was established we as a society have to make tough choices about who gets medical care free imediately and who will get the care if they can help themselves in some way first.
it would be a tragedy if the NHS was so short of cash they had to decide saving the life of a new born child or saving the life of a 100 a day smoker for example. but everyday the NHS boards all over the UK do make these tough choices.
often instead of the money that is paid to board members being spent actualy helping people they sit around and play god.
did anyone see that report recently where it was shown that at certtain times of day operating theatres are left empty during normal office hours. this is loonacy. we as a nation need to takie action on the NHS. and get as many managers out as possible, get new cleaner better staffed hospitals built.

i could go on for hours on this topic. but i better not!

Answer 4

of direction we'd desire to continuously pay for the operations. that is their tax funds too. The day we initiate up making exemptions is the day we end having an NHS. What else might you end? maximum cancers scientific look after human beings who smoke, Liver transplants for drinkers? Operations shouldn't in any respect be refused purely because of the fact of someone's psychological situation, we are actually not a u . s . that leaves our ill to die and not in any respect would be. whether as you have highlighted in terms of expenditures there is plenty extra we can do. i'm not denying that obese human beings do value the NHS plenty yet, we'd desire to continuously not be punishing those human beings we'd desire to continuously be finding at how we can get Britain healthful. If we've been to establish the help networks for obese human beings like we do with smoking and ingesting that could flow quite some way.

Answer 5

Why should the NHS help people who are not prepared to help themselves.

Its disgusting that people can abuse their bodies and then expect someone else to sort out the damage, which would only be temporary anyway if that person continues to abuse themselves.

Also, operations on obese people are dangerous anyway - more fat people die under anaesthetic than people with a healthy weight.


If that person is prepared to make a lifestyle change, then they should do so before treatment to prove to the medical profession that they are not wasting valuable time and resourses.

And, yes, they should pay taxes. If the thought of an unhealthy lifestyle leading to early death doesnt make people want to change their ways, then perhaps a financial incentive would work.

If somebody needs help with changing their lifestyle, whether its counselling, or smoking patches etc.....that i think is justified.

Answer 6

I see the logic, but then what if the logic is extended that bit further?

Should NHS dentists not treat people with cavities because it's their own poor dental hygiene that's caused the problem?

Should NHS doctors not treat a rock climber with a broken leg as it's his own carelessness that led him to fall off and injure himself?

Should NHS doctors not treat an alcoholic with liver disease because it's his own heavy drinking that led to the problem?

Should NHS doctors not treat a young person with STD because it's his/her own promiscuity that's led to the problem?

Once you try to distinguish who gets treated and who doesn't based on who's to blame for the conditions, then we're opening a huge can of worms. Just don't go there...

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Cybermoose: And the obese person who's had cardiac arrest - that's not an A&E case?

My point is that the logic of restricting access to healthcare based on lifestyle and/or preceived scapegoats for conditions is a route that's ill advised to take as the argument can go on - where do you stop and who decides?

At the very extreme end of this logic is a fascist-like system that decides who has the right to live and who doesn't. That's why this is a road that we should not go down.

I agree that obesity, smoking and drink related conditions are a big problem, and that the NHS is under great financial strain, but the solution is not with restricting access for certain people. I'm all for lifestyle change as being part of the treatment given to people with obesity/smoking/drink related health problems, but it has to be a treatment given to them as part of the deal with the NHS being a health service for all free at the point of need.

As with the financial problems the NHS is facing, I do believe that as a big bureaucratic machine that it is, the NHS desperately needs to shape itself up as an organisation - and not be cutting down on service.

Answer 7

Why should I pay for the NHS if I don't use it? Charge me for the ambulance and hospital bed as and when i use them. Charge me for a dentist if i chose to use an NHS one. Charge me for a visit to my GP should i choose to use him.
But don't try to tell me that I should feel ethically inclined to pay for a service that doesn't provide a service i feel is fit to be used.
That is having a nerve as far as i'm concerned.
Have a nice day!!!

Answer 8

If you're fat without a medical condition or smoke, you're damaging yourselves on purpose, why should the NHS treat people who are to lazy to look after themselves and have some self control.

We waste billions trying to help them just for them to continue to overeat and smoke and it's a waste of time and money that could be better spent on people that want help, nurses and operations etc


for the person below me -

people with liver damage from over drinking for years, they shouldn't be treated either.

a rock climber that breaks his leg, he should be treated. It's an accident and not due to years of self abuse!

STD patients should be treated due to it being a problem that can spread to others and affect the birth rates and babies health!

Answer 9

Obesity and smoking related illnesses are self inflicted. They take money and resourses away from people who have no choice in the fact that they are ill.
If you are a smoker and go into hospital because of a smoking related illness then yes you should have to pay or at least contribute to your treatment because its your own fault you are in there in the 1st place

Answer 10

Because the likes of Mr Brown and his words are of the same colour use the taxes that everyone pays to fund his **** ups and pay for wars we don't need or want. Oh and to keep the really rich, rich. And thats just a couple of reasons why.