Can Ford Dealerships rip you off with overcharging for labor?

Question

I noticed my bill showed 3.90 hours after they called me to notify me the car was ready. I estimated the work would of been longer, since they replaced a waterpump, and cleaned flushed out and replaced anti-freeze. I dropped it off at 9AM, it was there in the parking lot, not in the garage when I arrived at 11:40AM, but Idid not understand the labor hours. I asked them, even the service manager, and they B.S. about the clock hours put the time on my bill, but I don't understand how they got 3.90 hrs, if my car was parked and ready. I wonder if it was done sooner, and they ripped me off some more. How can I be sure if they actually replaced my water pump and did a flush?I had problems with another Ford dealership about 2 yrs ago, and supposely they replaced my waterpump, but my heat was still having problems, and that Ford place told me I had to replace the heater core. So I don't know.

Can it be 2 Ford Dealership repair shops ripping me off ? How can you prove any of it, when the manager says otherwise? Where else can you complain in NY state regarding this?

So pretty much Ford Dealerships can rip you off and overbill you, even when they stopped working on it for over an hour, they can still charge you more? Interesting, so where is the law on this, where is the proof?

As soon as I walked into the shop to pick up my car, they clocked the bill hours. That means they waited for me to pick up my vehicle, then clocked the hours in, regardless that my car had already been done. Where is this legal? This isn't legal!

Answer 1

Labor is issued by "book" hours by dealerships and most independent mechanics. They have a book that tells them approximately how long it takes to do a job on a specific vehicle, and that's the rate at which they charge you times the shop hourly rate, regardless of how long the actual job takes. Yes, this is legal.

Find a good, independant mechanic and establish a relationship with him, and he might charge you actual hours. The mechanic I go to charges me actual hours because he doesn't have to go hunting for problems as I know enough about my car to pinpoint what needs to be done, and I have been going there for 3 years.

Answer 2

1

Answer 3

As stated previously, labor hours for most services are charged based on "book labor". Most shops and dealerships use a guide (there are several, Mitchell is perhaps the most common) that states;

Job X should take X amount of hours for an "average" mechanic. A standard brake job for example on most vehicles is 1.0 hours per axle. A really good mechanic won't take that long but the shop goes by the book rate because the slow guy probably takes the whole hour. It works the other way too. Sometimes jobs take considerably longer to complete yet we usually only charge "book rate", not the actual time spent on the vehicle.

What the book does is take the guesswork out of it so the guy at the counter doesn't have to use a dartboard and you don't have different shops charging different time for the same job based on whatever that shop thinks it might take. With the book they know. The book is also just a guideline and does not have to be adhered to religiously. I will frequently either add or delete book time from a job if I know it will take considerably longer or less time to do than the guide says. Like replacing a headlight bulb on most cars. I'm not gonna charge 0.3 hours for that! It's ridiculous. Or 0.5 for a battery replacement that takes 5 minutes. Two nights ago we had a Lexus in for new valve cover gaskets. The job booked for 2.7 hours - it actually took the mechanic about 4 hours to do. The customer got charged 2.7 and the technician got paid for 2.7.

As for the poster who said it was robbery to charge a 27% margin on parts and $85/hr for labor - with all due respect s/he's not in a position to make any such claim unless s/he actually owns or runs an automotive repair business. I know for example that if my shop was only making 27% margin on parts and $85/hr on labor I'd be out of business by the end of the month! In the area where my shop is located that will not cover the cost of doing business. In other areas it might, but not here. Auto repair is a hugely competitive business of course and you usually don't find huge differences in the labor charges within the same area. Around here for example the median is about $95/hour although you will find shops about $5/hr lower or higher than that.

Answer 4

I own a mobile auto repair busines in NY and I can tell you that Flat Rate is just a guide. According to the DMV guidelines, the labor rate must be clearly displayed and may say the following: " Labor Rate X.XX per hour computed by CLOCK HOURS and/or FLATE RATE Manual". I know this because I had to have it clearly displayed on the side of my van to obtain the REGISTERED Motor Vehicle Repair Shop number. For electrical troubleshooting, I certainly charge clock hours and usually scale the labor time down after 2 hours. If you feel that there is a problem, contact this number, Consumer Complaint Unit - 518-474-8943. They will investigate if they feel there is something going on. I met several investigators when setting up my business and they have access to Alldata to review procedures and labor times and were also ASE certified and former technicians.

As far as some people saying that labor rates or times cause people to get ripped off have obviously never worked in a shop. For those people that do things themselves, it almost always takes them much longer and when it does take less time, it is usually because a friend helped. The labor times are a guide and there to protect both sides. Of course, you can't make everyone happy it seems. A Technician that does it in 1/2 of the time should get paid for what he knows and not for what he does. Anyone that has had any type of medical condition should know that specialists always cost more than general practitioners.

Answer 5

Ford Labor Rates

Answer 6

Most labor is billed according to a book that says that for a certain make and model of vehcile, a given job takes THIS amount of time. An experienced mechanic can often do work faster than the book says, but the book protects you from mechanics that are slow or from getting billed for complications of the job.

You can usually ask to see the book to confirm the charge.

In general, dealerships are not the cheapest options, but more and more, they are often the most honest.

You should be able to check the work by looking at the pump and fluids.

As for the earlier problem, I know from experience on both sides of the problem that bad things can happen when people meet with repair technicians. If you would have told me to replace the water pump, that is what I'll do. On the other hand, if you told me that you are not getting good cabin heat, I'd check the system over to find the real problem and deal with it.

When we work with repair folk, it is important to just tell them what the symptoms are rather than trying to diagnose it ourselves- that way we get much better service from them.

Answer 7

A flat rate shop uses a labour time guide book for hours. If it allows 2 hours for replacing a part - that is what you will be charged - regardless of how much time it actually took (ie - a better mechanic will do it quicker, etc...) Phone around to other shops, and ask for a quote for the same job - make sure you specify you want to know how many flat-rate hours it takes. A shop's door rate will vary ($95/hr x 2.0 hours = $190 labour, etc) this way, you'll be able to find out if you were overcharged. You seem to have very little trust in your repair facility. I suggest finding a local independant mechanic that you can put your trust in. If you don't understand something - best to have a professional you can rely on.

Answer 8

I have never had to do this personally, because I do my own work on my cars. But you could try and mark the part they are replacing in some way and after they have said they replaced it see if the part still has the mark or not. I would say scratch it somehow… a marker or tape could be simply be rubbed or pulled off, a scratch you can’t remove.

When a shop tells you that needs to be replaced, you can always take it somewhere else and get a second opinion or learn to do it yourself.

Last time I went to any shop, I was going to see about having a radiator leak fixed, well they said it couldn’t be patched, it had to be replaced. So I asked what that would cost… they told me it would cost $900.00 on my 91 Accord to have the radiator replaced. I was stunned…

I went down the street to a parts store, bought a radiator for $60.00 and replaced it myself.

Answer 9

In a flat rate system, a manufacturer will have someone complete a task several times, and then determine the average time needed to complete the task. The number they came up with (in this case 3.9 hours) is the amount of time they will charge you for, and pay the mechanic for.

Before you complain about getting ripped off, keep in mind that some guy had to do the equivalent of almost 4 hours of work in only 2 hours.

Bare in mind, had it taken them longer than 3.9 hours (say 5 hours for example), you would still only be billed for 3.9 hours.

Answer 10

Unfortunately, Ford dealers and every other type of car dealers work from a set of guidelines that tell them how many labor hours to charge for each part of a car worked on. They are not supposed to differ from that.
For instance, if you have your car serviced to change a fan belt, it might take a tech about fifteen minutes to do one, but the charge book might have a minimum time of 0.5 hours; that's what you will pay.
This is called a flat hourly rate and is used by most dealers.